Vifa la différence!

[Smagus]

Just thought I share what I’ve been up to, off and on for the last 6 months.

The design is a Vifa Premium 22-XT which I sourced from

http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/vifa/premium/vifa-premium_eng.htm

the cabinets are 18mm MDF combined with 7mm recycled Rimu “veneer”. The cabinets contain Vifa XT and PL drivers, Solen caps and coils, Nordost internal cable and assorted other bits sourced from Madisound in the States, Riviera Acoustics in France and JayCar in Wellington. Not the easiest thing I’ve built, but definitely worth the experience.
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[Owen Y]

Very Nice!

Do they publish test freq responses, etc for this design?

Cheers, Owen

[Smagus]

Thanks Owen,

There's very little information which made them a risky exercise. What I can glean from the dutch is the freq response is 22-60,000 hz, 90dB sensitivity with impendence 4-8 ohms. They should be able to keep up with SACD / DVD Audio when they finally sort out a standard format.

[michael w]

They look nice.

22-60,000 sounds opitmistic, any limits with those specs ?

:D

[Ilikecrumpets]

Very nice job there Smagus, you've now reminded me of my embryonic DIY project concerning Fostex front horns and my teeny weeny little placky Sonic Impact T-Amp. If only I wasn't so lazy....:cool:

Cheers

Gaz

[Smagus]

Hi Michael,

I agree 60k does sound very optimistic, the vifa website says the XT drivers do 1.5 - 40,000

http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=112

I'm still in the process of running them in, but from what I've heard so far, you definitely get some sausage with your sizzle!

[Harvey]

Those cabinets look very nice.:cool:

If I may be so bold, what was the all up cost of your project?

And if you'd care to unwrap that power cord from the speaker wire, I can't promise you'll hear any difference but I will sleep easier tonite.:D

[Smagus]

Cheers Harvey

I think all told (including an unexpected customs duty bill) I would have spent $900 NZD - saying that the dollar was around .7300 when I brought most of the order across from Madisound (they were excellent to deal with, custom winding inductor values and matching the caps to 1%).

Stuff that was not cheap was the ports - which my brother in London helped me acquire, they're made by Intertechnik and really expensive (because of freight) to get outside of Europe (I found this out after I started).

I got all the dampening and deadening from Jaycar and silver solder from Surplustonics. Given the dollars around .6300 now I'd say they'd be about a grand to build now give or take if Bunnings have 18mm MDF on sale.

I've now unwrapped the power cable off my Plinius so please sleep easier tonight!

[otisredding]

Congrats! :)

They certainly look the part!

[silvercj]

Very, very nice, did you laminate the rimu onto the MDF yourself or have it done professionally?

[Smagus]

Hi Silvercj,

I did it all myself although it's not veneer. I had some old 6x2s in the shed that I resawed on the bandsaw, thicknessed, then jointed. These pics might explain a bit better.

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[Owen Y]

Solid timber!
Now this IS a cut above common garden MDF cabinets :)

The next step for you is to try laminated solid timber spkrs, a la Sonus Faber, etc :cool:

Great stuff, Owen

PS. I see that you have Routed out the driver rebates (using a circle/centre-pin jig?), then you have Jigsawed out the holes after? I would have done it in opposite order, but clearly I am a novice at this sort of work, as your approach would ensure an accurate circle rebate cut?...Kindly explain a little.

[Smagus]

Hi Owen,

Solid woodish... hopefully enough to make them look great without colouring the sound. I used a Jasper Circle Jig which as you suggest uses a center pin. I routed the rebate for the driver increasing the increment until is was the correct diameter and depth. After this I reset the jig to the internal hole size and proceeded to rout to about 1mm of breaking through the MDF. This approach ensures your router keeps going round in perfect circles- after this is very easy to use a jigsaw / holesaw to cut the hole out. I suppose you could cut a circle then use a bearing guided rebate bit to follow the circle around - but this method introduces shaky hands, router kick back and all sorts of other problems.

You're abosolutely right about the Sonus Fabers - I would love to make a clone of these

http://www.hifi-notes.com/sonusfaberamatifabrikage-nl.htm

but these may have to be the next step

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm

Cheers

[curious_george]

Maybe try the stacked plywood cabinets ala Magico Mini....

[Owen Y]

Maybe try the stacked plywood cabinets ala Magico Mini....Indeed, this is a design I too spotted recently in a magazine review somewhere...CNC routed, integral bracing webs, horizontally stacked & laminated, plywood.

Smagus,
Those are great Sonus Faber factory pics! :)
I'm not familiar with this design, but the technique has long been used by them, using laminated SOLID wood tho.

Owen

[Smagus]

Curious George, I'm going to need more than a Jasper circle jig to make those!
Incredible!

I'm probaly going to go down the HT track and make the premium 11s, center and a sub of some description - then get into some serious 2 channel gear.

[silvercj]

Hi Silvercj,

I did it all myself although it's not veneer. I had some old 6x2s in the shed that I resawed on the bandsaw, thicknessed, then jointed. These pics might explain a bit better.

Great job there Smagus! Thanks for the pics of the Sonus speakers, just goes to show you how much work goes into these things. Wish I had the time and the tools to give it a go. Keep us informed on the next set as they look pretty cool.

[Owen Y]

Smagus,
You could be a godsend....with my basshorn project languishing in the basement since before summer, I have recently invested in a Table saw (Ryobi BT3100) & Plunge Router.

Where did you purchase the Jasper Circle Jig & which model?

I presume that usable circle diams are preset, but what increments of diam are possible & what is max diam of your Jig?

Questions, questions... I can feel a AudioEnz Woodworking Forum coming on here... ;)

Thks, Owen

PS. I see the model 400 with 1/16" increments for 1" to 7.5" diam holes, on their webpage, http://home.flash.net/~jaspera/ No more blunt holesaws!!!

PPS. Oops hey, I see the Model 200 on this webpage: http://www.jaspertools.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=Model-200
2-1/4" to 18-3/16" holes in 1/16" increments!

[Stuggs]

Craig, It's all very well getting me to build those cabinets for you but taking photos of them and sticking them on the web and stealing my thunder is just outrageous!

You're a very cheeky man, however, you now need one of these to complete your collection :-) I know a good supplier you can get them from :-)

Cheers

Stu

[silvercj]

Craig, It's all very well getting me to build those cabinets for you but taking photos of them and sticking them on the web and stealing my thunder is just outrageous!

You're a very cheeky man, however, you now need one of these to complete your collection :-) I know a good supplier you can get them from :-)

Cheers

Stu

By Craig, I assume you mean Smagus? Is this true Smagus? :eek:

[Stuggs]

If you don't believe me, here is a shot of his first attempt at building an active speaker set up for home - He only built the one, never did quite make it to 'stereo' - 5.1 was never going to happen!

[curious_george]

Crikey, controversy! :eek:

What is that unit, Stu? Media PC?

So can you build stacked plywood cabinet? :p

[Stuggs]

No, not really.....He built it, I just wanted to wind him up........It's taken him so damn long to build the wooden casing for those speakers the species of tree he used has now become extinct.....

The unit is a Media PC built from the mCubed HFX Classic case, stunning peice of kit, heat sinks all the way round the edge do all the cooling, no fans anywhere, completely silent - Works better with the AMD2 processors though, they knock out half the heat of a pentium so they're easier to cool....

Regards cabinets I'm better with Lego myself, I find the bass resonance the plastic offers to be superior to wood and when you get fed up of the colour or shape you can turn it into a working model of the millenium falcon or something :-)

Cheers

Stu

[Mevunky]

Why not just build it on a mobile platform...eg core duo 2/conroe etc etc...

Silence is win! And you know Conroe is too.

[Smagus]

Hi Owen,

I feel that Stu's gone and hijacked the thread (he must be bored of Maternity leave - come back to work Stu all is forgiven!) Conitinuing with his shameless plug, if you want to find out more about those stunnings cases... (I want one free now) check them out at:

http://www.itmighty.co.nz/

Right back on track - I've got the 400 jig, purchased it from Sound Labs Group in Australia. 1' - 7 1/2' in 1/16" increments - if they ever make a metric one buy it!, the maths hurts...

http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/c/Jasper/Jasper+Circle+Jigs.html

I think it was $40 AUD - I had to slightly modify for my Ryobi router - but once it is set up - Brilliant!

Your idea about a forum on woodworking / fabrication is good one - there's a lot of technical information on the web about crossovers and drivers, but not a lot about building a good box, then finishing it to a standard where your wife will let you have it in the house!

[Owen Y]

Soundlabs Group have good prices for the Jaspers!

Thks, Owen

PS. A couple of pics of "Mauhorn" compact folded rear horns, constructed back when I had a bit more time, obviously!

[steven bilbee]

hells bells! Thats a lot of work,I assume you have only built the one so far as it apears to be alone and abandoned.

[Owen Y]

Nah, built a pair...definitely insane at the time :rolleyes:

Here's evidence...

Owen

[silvercj]

Do you still have them? How did they sound, the internal path for the horn looks a little Nautilus in shape - amazing amount of work in these!

[Owen Y]

Yep, I still have these "Mauhorns", you can see them on this page:
http://audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2417&page=2

Presently they are used to augment Bass only, for the Fibreglass Tractrix MidHorns sitting on top.

When my DIY Basshorn cabinets are completed (getting tired of hearing myself say this :o )... the Midhorns will be attached...and the Mauhorns will have to go.

The "Mauhorn IV" design was published by Andreas Mau (formerly Lowther Club of Germany) in the now-defunct Sound Practices magazine (attached below). It is a 3.5m long, Hypex(Hyperbolic-Exponential) horn expansion, 29~30hz Flare, folded into a 30cm width cabinet. The parallel-sided design makes for 2-dimensional-only foldings & with constant width panels, thus DIY construction is easier (!).

The sound of these spkrs is defined by 2 features:
(i) Single "Full range" Lowther driver, no crossover, 21,000 Gauss magnets, 97dB/w => clarity, speed & dynamics.
(ii) Hornloaded bass => a different character of LF, more nimble, informative and tonally colourful, in my view. Definitely not one-note. Depending on room placement, bass output starts rolling off from 45~50hz, due to the truncated horn length.

Cheers, Owen

[Isaac Hunt]

if you are using solid timber it is important you allow for the natural timber movement.One way is to use furniture bolts to fasten solid timber to a ply or MDF frame work.You can simply tap a thread into this with the bolts that will hold very firm.The holes through the solid timber must be oversise or oval shaped to allow for O.5% seasonal contraction/ expansion and both inside and outside surfaces should be sealed to minimise cupping.
Front and back baffles should be MDF,ply or another stable material [corian would work well]
I have made a couple of the Ed Frias designed AR.com kits for friends[available from Madisound] using solid jarrah side cheeks/leather over MDF baffles and top /bottoms in the Sonus Faber style.
These are superb sounding kit speakers-very refined and coherent in a Spendor like way.

[Owen Y]

Yes indeed, always good to remember that timber is an "organic", live material.

However, proven approaches to the problem are:

- Use "seasoned" timber, dried over a long period of time, ideally in the environment in which the timber is to be finally installed. Old timber taken from old houses, or furniture, is a source...altho woodworkers are wary of damaging tools on stray nails etc inside old wood.

- "Seal" the timber, on all sides after fabrication...ie varnish, polyurethane, paint, etc.

- Use composite timber materials, like Plywood, with its thin, glued multiple layers at 90deg directions, it is more dimensionally stable than solid timber, also lighter, stronger.

Spendor, of course, traditionally used relatively thin, Birch plywood for its cabinets, with damping pads.

Cheers, Owen

[Smagus]

I'm speeceless Owen - will reply when I can get my head around what you have achieved...

[Smagus]

Agree Isaac - when I make tables and cabinet tops, I use floating tongue and groove blocks to allow for expansion. With the Vifas, I knew I was never going to get a truely dimesionally stable material, so I used 80 year old rimu - combined with "locking" mitre joints (for a larger surface area) and marine epoxy, fingers crossed...

[Callum]

Just thought I share what I’ve been up to, off and on for the last 6 months.

Beautiful. Are they changing much as you run them in? Are you a happy camper?

[Smagus]

Hi Callum,

It may all be in my head but they seem to be opening up... if the volume dials anything to go by they need less juice to get going than when I first started running them. They are more dynamic.

Definitely a happy camper, currently rediscovering my CD collection. I'm now confident to make the sourrounds and center in the same series - will post some pics as I get them underway.

Cheers

[silvercj]

Hi Callum,

It may all be in my head but they seem to be opening up... if the volume dials anything to go by they need less juice to get going than when I first started running them. They are more dynamic.

Definitely a happy camper, currently rediscovering my CD collection. I'm now confident to make the sourrounds and center in the same series - will post some pics as I get them underway.

Cheers

Great to hear that you are happy with your efforts. There is nothing like the satisfaction of building something and then sitting back and enjoyingthe fruits of your hard earned labour.:D

If you are able build another one of the fronts for your centre (if screen placement will allow) as there is no doubt that having a full range speaker (and one identical to your front pair) gives the best performance and will meld in effortlessy with your fronts. If not then attempt to use the same drivers as the fronts in a horizontal box.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Great job though.;)

[Smagus]

Hi Silvercj,

Your 2c is right on the money - excuse the pun. The vifa premium centre and premium 11s (surrounds) use identical drivers to the floorstanders I built. The centre is a slightly different shape but would imagine very similar in voicing to the 22 and the surrounds don't have the lower bass crossover and driver. Here is a picture of them.
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[silvercj]

Hi Silvercj,

Your 2c is right on the money - excuse the pun. The vifa premium centre and premium 11s (surrounds) use identical drivers to the floorstanders I built. The centre is a slightly different shape but would imagine very similar in voicing to the 22 and the surrounds don't have the lower bass crossover and driver. Here is a picture of them.
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600
Looks like you have a few more days in the "man shed" ahead of you:D

Let us know how they pan out - should sound pretty good with all the matching drivers in surround - nice and cohesive.

[Owen Y]

Hi Smagus,
Jasper 400 Jig arrived from Soundlabs Australia today. Yes I see that I will also need to make an additional hole for Router fixing (Ryobi ERT1500VK).

I'm guessing that the Jig material is Polycarbonate, I have no experience with working this material.

What method/tool/s did you use to safely drill/cut an additional shouldered hole for the router plate fixing?

Thanks again,
Owen

[Smagus]

Hi Owen,

From memory (It was a while ago) I did the following...

Attached the center pin of the jig to the collet on the router and made sure that alignment piece is attached to the jig.

After that I pushed the center pin through the hole in the alignment piece - the router is now centered

I rotated the router to see if it lined up on any of the factory mounting holes - I think I managed one... doesn't matter if you don't get any

After I found some free jig (without any increment holes in the way) I grabbed a drill bit about 0.5mm smaller than the diameter of the mounting hole on the router. Then pushed the drill bit down through the router base plate and marked the center of each new mounting hole to be drilled on the jig. (The perspex marks real easy)

Drill the two holes about 0.5mm larger than the diameter of the mounting hole on the router, then counter sink the holes (either using a counter sink bit or something like a 12mm drill bit, going down till the counter sink diameter matches the diameter of the screw head) this allow the mounting screws to sit flush on the jig.

The jig material is easy to work with and won't shatter, just use sharp drill bits

Good luck - post again if this doesn't make sense

PS: As for safety - I'm probably not the best guy to advise on that.

[Owen Y]

Thanks again Smagus,
Yes, my router fixing is via Csk Head Screws so that will be easier as I have a Csking bit. It looks like I'll need 2 new holes & the "Calibration Disc" they provide will be useful for centreing. Accuracy of centreing will obviously be key to the future accuracy of the Jig. Unfortunately the USA Ryobi routers are different from Euro/global models.

(Safety: I was mainly concerned with shattering the Jig material.)
Cheers, Owen

[Owen Y]

An update, if anyone is still about...

The Ryobi 1500VK mounting holes are VERY tricky as (i)the mounting bolts are large 8mm with 14mm dia heads, & (ii)there are only 2, very tight positions possible, just avoiding the jig pin holes.

However, I am able to use one of the existing holes, with v careful enlarging & sl offsetting.

First job will be an access hole under the driver chamber of the basshorn :)
Cheers, Owen

[Owen Y]

I should add that www.soundlabsgroup.com.au have been quite helpful, with ordering & follow up advice.

The Jig is Cast Acrylic, they say.

I see they sell drivers, valves, DIY parts...
Owen

[steven bilbee]

[QUOTE=Owen Y]Hi Smagus,
Jasper 400 Jig arrived from Soundlabs Australia today. Yes I see that I will also need to make an additional hole for Router fixing (Ryobi ERT1500VK).



Are these jigs not available in Auck?

[Owen Y]

Let us all know if you manage to find a supplier here.

I may need a bigger one in the future.
Owen