Tactile Bass for $20 at Jaycar! [Archive]

maxcat

6th January 2003, 05:42 AM

I had to pass this one on: Jaycar are now selling their Aura Cushions for $20 (including amp, power supply connectors etc).

The Aura cushion is a tactile transducer that augments low end bass with low end vibration.

I mucked around with some of the raw drivers over the holiday (with the beach HT system!..) and was amazed at what I could get from them when screwed into a couch sub-frame, using just the supplied amp via the bass pre-out on my old Yamaha DSP100 processor.

I've had these cheapy units for a while, but never bothered as I had the Clark Synthesis Platinum and Aura Bass Engines as well. When EQ'd the Aura cushion really does kick hard - and I've tried them all from the Buttkicker to the Clark units.

Anyway, they are a lot of fun, and you can learn a bit about tactile sound along the way as well.

If you put on U571 depth charge scene, you will begin to know what it feels like to get a big sound pressure wave in the kidneys...

Check out Jaycar..you may find this is a very interesting first step in tactile audio..

Ph 0800452 9227 www.jaycar.co.nz

Max Christoffersen

Senator

6th January 2003, 03:26 PM

Max,

Certainly looks like an interesting product.

How do you connect them?

My amp has a single LFE out which is being utilised for my sub, I assume they dont have a LFE in/out to pass the signal to?

Thanks

Sen

maxcat

6th January 2003, 03:55 PM

"My amp has a single LFE out which is being
utilised for my sub, I assume they dont have a
LFE in/out to pass the signal to? "

Take your sub pre-out out (via Y lead - one lead to Aura amp; one lead to your sub) and connect to the input on the Aura amp (a little messy with all the leads, but it works) and away you go.

A tidier way would be to get the Jaycar part # PA-3500 and go straight RCA sub out to RCA/mono plug adapter on the Aura amp.

Frankly, it's the best bang on the market. EQ this a little bit and I swear to God you'll feel your fillings rattle.

You have been warned... :>)

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

6th January 2003, 06:46 PM

Hi Maxcat,

What about the Aura Shaker?? What is the main difference?

Slippery.

maxcat

6th January 2003, 08:29 PM

The Aura Shakers can be seen here:

http://www.aurasound.com/

Basically, the main difference is power handling, the cosmetics are different too: 25 watts vs 50 watts.

In NZ the Aura shakers were marketed as Alpine Bass Engines.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

7th January 2003, 10:36 AM

My system suffers from boomy muddy bass. No end of fiddling has failed to eliminate this problem. So I was interested in this Tactile Bass. What I'm looking for is the Crack of a gun shot being prominent on my system. I want the bass to be crisp and tight. I take it this shaker is more of a "felt" energy rather than an audible one??

Slippery.

maxcat

7th January 2003, 11:10 AM

Yes the transient attack will give you a bit of a kick and will do what you want: round out the perception of the audible bass sound *and* give your body the sensation of being hit by tactile/bass soundwaves that would normally only be possible by dB high output or cone over extension or both.

I've been fiddling with these a lot lately and could write a Thesis on the nature of inaudible 'hearing', and that's why I suggest these units are just the beginning: but yes Slippery I think you're a candidate for tactile bass.

But it's not just transient peaks or explosions.. Last night I was playing the Joe Satriani DVD Live in SF and the bass extension and depth from Stu Hamm's bass on 'Always With Me Always With You' was like nothing else I had ever heard or felt outside of a live club at *really* excessive dB - you know the stomach-hitting, pant-leg flapping live bass.

Keep in mind I was running no less than 4 transducers (Clark Synthesis; 2 Aura Pros and the cushion) on my Sesations Chair (from Peter Tipa in Dunedin) to get this effect.

I'd say try 'em. That's the only way you'll know for sure.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

8th January 2003, 05:26 AM

I don't have the option of putting them under the floor boards. Where is a good place to start for placement, and how many??

Slippery.

maxcat

8th January 2003, 09:50 AM

The cushion may be a good place to start off.

Placement obviously, is straight forward and some people don't like the effect of tactile sound.

So I suggest starting there first.

But if you're game, take a look at your couch - it should be a wood sub-frame to make things easy.

It does get fiddly from here, but see if you have a piece of wood that is about 6 x 1.5 (inches) and whatever length is needed to straddle your sub-frame.

You will need to cut a hole (or holes) about the size of a CD (with a small notch for the connectors). The transducer screws in there and the wood then needs to be screwed *firmly* into the wooden couch sub frame. Try some Selleys liquid nails as well as screws.

I am running two of the 25 watt transducers, but I suspect one may do the same thing. (I could start ranting about transducer cancellation effect but will save it for later..)

Anyway - that's about it: a board, a hole, a seat and a thing that vibrates.

The great thing here is it is out of sight and it can really fool you into thinking you've driving the bass level hard..until you stand up and the effect totally vanishes.

Just make sure everything is firm. You want the vibrations to pass along the entire subframe of the chair.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

8th January 2003, 10:22 AM

Oh goody....a project!!:D
Does it connect to the sub-out of my reciever or do I need a wee amp for this baby??

Slippery

maxcat

8th January 2003, 11:33 AM

The cushion is 'Plug and Play' Slippery; small amp supplied.

Try the Shuttle launch scene from Armageddon.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

8th January 2003, 06:05 PM

And the Shaker??:confused:

maxcat

9th January 2003, 04:54 AM

The shaker is about $23 I think. The power supply alone is $37.

So buy the Cushion or the Interactor ($15) deal and get the lot; the shakers in these units are identical to each other and the stand alone unit.

Time to phone Jaycar and see what they can do!

Max Christoffersen

maxcat

9th January 2003, 06:18 AM

Here is a nice close-up photo of the Aura Pro (Alpine Bass Engine) shaker.

Love those funky heat sinks.

Looks like baby Plinius Larve that will one day grow up to be an SA250:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14933&item=1949279477

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

13th January 2003, 12:37 PM

Mrs rang to say the cushion arrived this morning. She though the courier was bringing flowers!!!

Test tonight, report tomorrow.

Slippery.

Slippery

17th January 2003, 04:46 AM

Plugged it all in and.....well......nothing really:mad:
I have two sub outs on my receiver. So I used the 2nd one for the cushion. As soon as I plugged it in and turned it on, my sub began to hum rather loudly. The cushion at best gave the faintest of vibrations.

So, I rechecked the connections.....all good there. Checked the settings, can't see any obvious problems??

Any thoughts?

Slippery.

jonny5

19th January 2003, 08:24 PM

I bought one of those cushions a few years ago for playing games... it was good for a while, but got too messy with extra wires etc... it became a pain in the butt. You really need something discrete/permanent attached to your couch/chair IMO, under the floor boards for example. One day when I have a dedicated room, I'll definitely be getting some bass shakers...

maxcat

20th January 2003, 07:09 AM

Back again!..Sorry I've been away from the internet (blessed relief!) for a bit.

But OK: Jonny - just take the transducer out of the cushion (I'll take the plastic cushion inner!) and mount it in your couch: that's essentially what I've done using a raw driver. It flat-out works....the Enterprise was rumbling away on Saturday very nicely indeed. I also scared the bejeezus out of some friends who didn't know what was about to hit them..

What is it with women and vibrating butts?

Anyway, a small downside is the amp could use a little more gain - but I may have a solution there too.

Slippery - I am stumped. What is the setting on the processor's speaker set-up menu?

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

20th January 2003, 03:27 PM

Its a Yamaha with LFE Out set to Subwoofer at -6db.

A re check of the manuals did not give any clues either.!

Slippery.

maxcat

20th January 2003, 03:53 PM

"Its a Yamaha with LFE Out set to Subwoofer
at -6db"

Put it back to 0dB and see what happens.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

25th January 2003, 09:47 AM

Reset to 0db. Rechecked connections and......snap crackle flop!!

Logic says..."if it ain't in the middle then it must be the ends"

As I would never blame the Yamaha, must be at the cushion. So, Scalpel........clamp.......suction.........WHOAAAA !!

Yes, a dodgy connection at the cushion end.

Damn, it's good. Very Good. Needs some more tweaking to get the best balance between Sub/Cushion and what is going on on screen, but first efforts are awesome. My Bass has never been this good.

I think this is the begining of a long journey.

Cheers,

Slippery.

maxcat

25th January 2003, 10:14 AM

"My Bass has never been this good. I
think this is the begining of a long
journey."

Hey Slip-Man!!!

I'm delighted for ya! I was going to offer to buy your one, seeing as I got you into this mess!

But, yep, once you've got tactile sound working for you, you won't want to give it back. And no additional subs will give you want you're gaining now *at the same relative output level*.

Many buy extra subs trying to get that kick that tactile transducers give you: it just won't happen at low level output.

Jaycar also make a cool looking bass EQ kitset that could be fun to try too.

I use one of these: http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Reviews/Audiocontrol_1/index.html

I also have a friend (a drummer) who has bought a cushion for his drumming: sorta like this:

http://www.clarksynthesis.com/prosound.html

I'm a *bad* influence...

Anyway, keep me posted Slippery: it's a fun ride from here..

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

25th January 2003, 03:38 PM

Yep....I was going to buy another Sub. A salesman told me My 200W Sub was no good for what I wanted and he suggested 250W plus!

Well as you said...this has to be the best bang for the buck on the market.

I have a couch with a fold out bed. The cushion is buried in this. The effect is felt right through the couch but becasue it is wrapped in a mattress I suspect it is a dampened effect. Any way, next step is to attach it to the frame as you described earlier.

As a side note, the sub still hums when the cushion is on. But because of the excellent results, I am able to turn the sub way down from previous levels so it is only noticeable when there is silence.

Best $20 I ever spent. Follow Max's advice and go Tactile!

Slippery.

maxcat

25th January 2003, 04:14 PM

"Yep....I was going to buy another Sub. A salesman told me My 200W Sub was no good for what I wanted and he suggested 250W plus!"

Bollocks.

I'd like to meet that salesman and strap one of these things to his butt.

A $20 piece of vibrating metal is what you needed.

Tactile bass happens only one of two ways:

1) Huge amounts of air being moved at *high* dB
levels with massive amplifier power.

2) Tactile transducers

The real benefit of any of the tactile units is you can simulate the same effect at low db levels, making it ideal for those who dislike the sound pressure build-up typical of such high bass levels in domestic rooms; or for those in small rooms or apartments.

The great news is you're still not getting the best from the Auras in your install.

There's yet more (guilty) pleasure to be had!

It's made my day they're working for you!

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

26th January 2003, 02:40 PM

It's like the 1st day I bought my HT gear all over again. I just can't stop grinning!:)

Slippery.

maxcat

29th January 2003, 10:19 AM

Slippery, about your noise, I think the problem is coming from the maize of connectors and those long leads.

I put a 3.5 mono to RCA socket adapter on - it's so much tidier now it's RC socket from bass pre-out straight into the Aura amplifier.

I'm pretty sure those supplied leads can't be trusted, so try a good lead and the RCA adapter and your sub I think will be noise free.

Max Christoffersen

maxcat

31st January 2003, 08:47 AM

This is also worth checking out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3003321054&category=3275

This E-Bay Auction shows some set-up drawings: a picture of the amps and transducers and check that recommended $US *price*!

If that doesn't get youi down to Jaycar for a mere $20 - nothing will.

If you're at E-Bay also search for the Aura Pro Bass Shakers - best bang for the buck period.

Max Christoffersen

Jitters

8th February 2003, 09:53 PM

I use the Alpine Bass Engine. If you are using these things for movies, I have found the best channel to connect the shakers to is the centre channel (via an additional amp). The vibrations thus tracks the on-screen action. The LFE channel is best left to the subwoofer. It is somewhat disconcerting, if you use the LFE channel, (after the initial novelty has worn off) to feel the tactile effect when there is no on-screen image to correlate to.

razza

13th February 2003, 07:32 AM

I have been following this thread. It is quite interesting. Has anyone done the physics on the kinetic enegy delivered from a tactile transducer running at 20watts compared to an air moving subwoofer running at 200 watts.

What is the best physical environment to place these things?

cheers

maxcat

19th February 2003, 08:25 AM

There have been comparisons done between tactile units comparing force, but this is where it starts to get difficult to compare moving air, to moving solid furniture.

Bottom line is this: at normal listening levels (say 50-70 db), no speaker driver on the planet can do what a tactile transducer can do.

And the reason is simple - 'you canne break the laws of physics Captain..' and to create the same amount of tactile force from a driver is going to take a *huge* amount of air being moved with an equivalent amount of dB output and amp power behind it.

Tactile transducers are probably one of the most interesting psycho-acoustic 'simulations' in audio.

Your brain is telling you there is bass at high levels but there is none of the corresponding room loading typical of such high excursion bass output.

And where are they best located?

On you. Seriously, that's why these cheapies work so well they shake *you*. In furniture and under floor joists are the other locations that work well to shake your 'environment'.

I conducted a really interesting experiment the other day:

KIDS PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME - THIS STUNT WAS DONE BY A KEEN AMATEUR WITH NO TRAINING WHATSOEVER

I took my old Velodyne amplifier and hooked it up to my cushion and let it rip.

The bass output from this combination was so
*severe* that my eyesight was being affected - I couldn't see straight and the processor display was jumping all over the place. I gave it up when I thought maybe my retinas were in danger of dislodging.

I don't recommend it being this this low, this hard for long, but if you want it - it'll do it.

Oh yeah - I should mention that if you go past 5Hz, you'll spontaneously lose bowel control.

But evidently fear was not a factor for me.

Jaycar have just got new stocks in having sold out.

You have been warned....

Max Christoffersen

Hamish

19th February 2003, 11:15 AM

I just bought two of the cushions and I can't wait to try them out tonight.

If their even half as good as everyone says, then it will be the best $40 I ever spent.

Hamish

razza

19th February 2003, 11:17 AM

Rip an old couch apart.
Put a piece of 2x6 along it, bolted to the frame.
Connect a couple of shakers.

Add: a piston bolted to a shaker. At the end of the piston a "hammer" Have the hammer resting on a length of plasic tubing, 100mm wide say 1.3m long. Install in the chair. The shaker will vibrate the chair and generate low frequency sounds in the pipe.
The pipe could be tuned to say 15hz. It could be tubular, with some 180degree bends for greater length. The longer the length the lower the frequency.

cheers,

jmarshall

19th February 2003, 02:29 PM

All I can say is WOW!

I have tried a single transducer out of the vest, bolted it to a bit of 18mm MDF, and screwed it up under the seat of a LazyBoy (My Significant other wasn't too impressed at seeing the LazyBoy undergoing surgery - it was new for Christmas :)

I am rather impressed. I had it's little amp set on around 3-4 on it's power scale, and it shook quite nicely - complementing my DIY sub very well. Crank it up and it shakes a lot more, but it loses itself quite easily - too much is definitely TOO MUCH!

Tonight I'll be designing a better shaker->Lazyboy connection scheme as I could feel the lump of MDF through the seat. I'll be putting 2 shakers towards the back of the lazyboy seated portion. That way they don't interfere with the seating, or the mechanism.

Keep tuned for further developments :)

maxcat

19th February 2003, 03:58 PM

"All I can say is WOW!"

Hey that's great! You can see someone doing something similar with the same components here:

http://www.klutzoplex.com/piccies/picciespast.htm

And so the tactile disease spreads further..

Max Christoffersen

davee

21st February 2003, 11:07 AM

I have done the 'Guy Kuo' (search AVS forums on this) mod to my Shakers. This mod really works. it lowers the shakers resonant frequency and Increases the LOW frequency response by a quit a bit! :-) It involves grinding away some of the spider's material and is very easy with a grinder or Dremel tool.
I have 4 modded shakers screwed (very firmly!) to a 3 seater couch's frame. I dont use the little amps they came with. I wired each pair of shakers in series to give an 8 ohm load. I power these 4 shakers from 2 chs of a Sony Tan-9000es 5x120watt power amp,these are fed from the Sub out (LFE) of a Sony TAE-9000es digital pre-amp set at 40hz. I set the level to between -14db up to 0 db depending on the source. I also put 2 more modded Shakers in our 2 seater couch and run them from a third ch. of the amp. Music is best at the lower settings otherwise it all gets a bit much and movies ...well :-)).... it depends on how much you want scare yourself and your guests. These things really do work!
They seem to handle the power too , they will let you know with a loud 'clacking' noise if they get too much stick tho! Oh yes and i have found that they 'Clack' much earlier if they are mounted horizontely. ( Gravity takes hold i guess) Vertical mount is best if you can do it , at least it is for the Modded shakers anyway.
I WAS going to buy the US$800 ButtKicker2 with the 1kw amp but i dont need that now!
davee ;-)
My system comprises of;
1 pair Von Schweikert VR4.5 loudspeakers, 20-25 khz,91db 1w 1 m. on front chs.
1 pr Origin Ribbon 40-30khz monitors on the rear chs.
1 x Sony TAE-9000ES digital AV pre-amp
1x Sony TAP-9000ES 6ch. Analog pre-amp
1x Sony TAN-9000ES 5x120 watts power amp
1x AYRE V3 power amp 2x150 watts on the Von Schweikert VR4.5s
1x Sonken DV2600 DVD player (Pal &Ntsc Progressive scan &
No Macrovision!
1x Sony DVP-NS900V multi ch.SACD/dvd player
1x Enlightened Audio Designs T1000 cd transport
1 x ART DI/O AD/da converter SMart modded by Bolder Cables USA. ( it sounds incredible,it blew away my EAD Dsp9000pro Dac !)
1x PS Audio Power Plant 300 ac regenerator
A combination of Harmonic Tech , Cat5 and VandenHul cables.
1 x NEW Sanyo PLV-Z1 widescreen projector with a 2.3m wide pull down screen.
1x Xbox and 2x steering wheels ( car race addicts here)
1x old Luxman FM tuner
1x old NEC hifi vcr
1 x little Palsonic tv for watching news and such.

maxcat

23rd February 2003, 02:10 PM

You really don't need to modify the transducer through surgery.

As always, you can change a driver's stock performance mechanically or electronically.

With the bass shaker, add a bass synthesizer to the signal (like the AudioControl PCA or Behringer Ultra Bass Pro) or a dedicated bass EQ.

The two digital bass enhancer processors take in a stock bass signal, digitise it, split in two and send out the original signal plus a second fundamental half the original ferquency: in short if you have a 30 hz signal you will get the original 30 hz plus a 15 hz signal.

This does two things: extends frequency response (shake) and also serves as a vocal sub-filter.

The other point is that it is very easy to exceed the excursion limit of the Aura transducer when using other amps to drive it. This results in a very noticeable *CLACK* as the FG spider hits its limit.

I suspect that is why the owner's manual says to only use the supplied Aura amplifier: I think this small amp has a limiter built-in which stops the shaker hitting its own excursion limit.

I can't get the Aura shaker to bottom out when using the matching Aura amp. And believe me - I've tried!

I use electronic enhancement and I've stuck with the Aura amp/transducer combo, having had it clicking and clacking when using an AMC amp with it previously.

Your mileage may vary.

Max Christoffersen

jmarshall

24th February 2003, 07:35 AM

From my quick look at the stock amps, it looks like they may have limiter circuitry. Certainly everything is there for it. The wee Red light that pops on is basically telling you when it starts running.

As for adding the sub-harmonic, I'd be careful in applying this. As you all probably know, excursion issues come in to play at low frequencies. A driver must AT LEAST double it's excursion capabilities as frequency is halved, and these little things don't have much excursion anyway.

I would suggest that the mechanical alteration is probably the better way to go, as it increases efficiency of the transducer, thus allowing one to perform lower with the same amount of amplification (ie using the stock amps).

Ofcourse, if you have power to burn, then equalisation is fine.

Note that the stock amps do have a sub-harmonic generator (1/4 of the original is summed back in) when in Game mode. This is not a particularly good implementation of the frequency divider, but as long as you are not feeding it anything above 80-100Hz or so will likely do the same job.

maxcat

26th February 2003, 06:32 PM

Here's a helpful tactile info site:

http://www.baudline.com/%7Eerik/bass/tactile_faq.html

And anyone notice The Buttkicker is now available in New Zealand?

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

1st March 2003, 08:36 AM

I see there is a 1/2 page add for it in the latest version of TONE.

Not sure how much, but contact details are provided for the NZ retailer.

Slippery.

maxcat

2nd March 2003, 07:43 AM

Yep - like I said this was just a first step...

A good first step, but it does whet the appetite for how much further you can go.

If you want a near 3 pound piston bouncing around up your wazoo..then I have the product for you...

Max Christoffersen

maxcat

8th March 2003, 11:57 AM

And if you want something bigger than a 3 pound piston bouncing around up your wazoo..then I have the product for you...

http://www.d-box.com/html_en.html

Check the Odyssee.

You have been warned!!

Max Christoffersen:D

jg49727

13th March 2003, 10:43 PM

Just happened to have a musican friend with a Behringer Ultra Bass Pro, so I thought I'd
give it a go with some of the aura shakers
I'd already installed under my couch to
see if I could get some more omphh

Well I can't get it working. Subout from
receiver into behringer produces
no effect (LEDs do nothing).
I've also tried variations like feeding
mains preouts into it as well but same
result. I'm using rca-1/4" jacks for connectors.

Any ideas ?

Cheers

maxcat

14th March 2003, 05:40 AM

Yes.

You're driving pro gear with domestic gear which have different voltage levels.

I too have the Ultra Bass Pro and needed to use the high gain output on my NAD 1300 pre-amp (designed to drive pro gear) to feed the Behringer.

There are two ways to get this mismatch sorted: either modify the gain stage on the Behringer:

On the circuit board R71 changed to 56K from 10K. This increases the gain in the bass processor circuit - see here:

http://diy.cowanaudio.com/more.html

Or you can buy one of these to boost the output stage of the pre-out of the amp/processor to drive the Behringer to the right level:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/marchandsubsonic.htm

Either way, the solution is to boost the output level.

Max Christoffersen

Senator

17th March 2003, 02:15 PM

Max,

Couple a quick questions -

How difficult is it to tear the pillows apart to retro-fit the transducers and amplifiers elsewhere (IE take apart, screw the transducer to the bottom of the couch and have the amplifier handy to each couch)?

Have you tried running more than one shaker off one amp?

The sub I run is a Velodyne CT150 which has a line out option available (both L&R). Would it work running the line out from the sub to the amplifier(s), or would I need to try something else from my Denon AVC-A1?

Thanks

TonyD

maxcat

17th March 2003, 08:12 PM

I suggest getting the Aura Back-Pack - it's a little easier to dismantle.

No I haven't tried more than one transducer off one amp. And I wouldn't try. They're very good amps for the purpose and I wouldn't go outside their intended and designed-for performance envelope.

I have tried them with my more powerful Aura Pro transducers with good results.

Sure, take a feed from the Velodyne or use a Y lead from the Denon's sub output - one to the Velodyne, one to the Aura amp.

Here is where this thread all started - with pics of my Aura install:

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2003/bass-shaker.shtml

Max Christoffersen

Senator

17th March 2003, 08:16 PM

I was just trying to think of ways to get two shakers per 2 seater couch, that might be overkill?

Your piccie on your article shows two shakers, guess your running two amps somehow??

Cheers

TonyD

maxcat

17th March 2003, 08:26 PM

I just took a Y splitter direct from the sub feed out and then split it further to two Aura amps; with one lead going to my old Velodyne.

I like the effect of two transducers - it works well - you have to ensure phase is correct - but it works for me.

The hard bit is making a hole big enough and tidy enough to get the two transducers in and then getting it all snuggly in the couch before 'anyone else' finds out..

Max Christoffersen

Senator

17th March 2003, 09:44 PM

Yes,

"anyone else" is likely to have a fit.
Ed knows how tough my minister of finance is

maxcat

19th March 2003, 07:14 AM

I've found that there is more WAF acceptance of transducers than big subs, in part, because they can be hidden.

Subs also tend to load-up the room and women (in my limited experience) appear to loathe this effect.

So tactile sound is one way to have low end performance with the added bonus being the women in the house can enjoy the effect without the price you pay for big sound from subs.

They work for apartments as well - so bass can be had without some of the problems.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

19th March 2003, 09:50 AM

Hey Maxcat,

I have passed the virus onto another. He has the Aura shaker but......His system is one of those $1399 from Farmers. Upon looking in the back of the "all in one" receiver/DVD player, the connections for the speakers and Sub are all wires via spring clips.

Is there any way we can hook the shaker up to this bit of kit er I mean system:D

Slippery

maxcat

19th March 2003, 10:04 AM

Ahhh...the virus spreads...

But yes you can use all in one jobs - I've never tried this so it's an experiment:

Take a feed from the DVD player's headphone socket, or from the amp section itself.

There is a diagramn on the enclosed Aura A4 sheet showing which plugs you need to use and how - then connect the lead from the HP socket out to the Aura amp in and the rest as we now now know, is history...

This *should* work. It's a little clumsy but should be OK.

Max Christoffersen

Slippery

19th March 2003, 10:08 AM

Tried that and the sound did not come from the speakers!! Automatic cut off?? Not sure.

Slippery.

jmarshall

19th March 2003, 11:17 AM

Assuming that the only outputs available are speaker level, and the headphone socket is a cutout type, then without cracking the unit open, you'll need to either run the shaker in parallel or series with the sub (Will alter the level of the sub, and strain on the amp, depending on what you do.), or you'll need to convert the speaker level signal down to line level.

This can be done easily with a simple resistive divider, but it'd help if you had some idea of the gain of the amp section of the all in one job. A simple pot may be all that's needed. I'd use a 100k or so pot (Log will be easier) and hook the sub out to either end of the pot, and the aura line in to the wiper and ground end. Then alter the pot with the volume on the all in one job turned to a reasonably low level until you get the shake. Then crank up the level and check it doesn't get too out of hand.

The 100k pot won't load the amp, and will give you the reduction in signal needed. Make sure you hook the ground end the right way around as it'll make it easier to adjust.

Slippery

22nd March 2003, 11:51 AM

Another project........Awesome.

And if I stuff it up, it ain't mine anyway:D

Slippery.

Senator

25th March 2003, 07:42 PM

If max has posted the tactile bargain of the year, then this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/Game-Consoles-and-Accessories/auction-3376184.htm has to be the tactile rip-off of the year.

What a joke - buy 1 now for $100 from him, or buy 5 now for $100 from Jaycar.

Just shows, everything in Auctions arent a bargain.

Having said that, just got hold of an amp for having a play with some shakers, so will see how it goes.

Max deserves to be gagged and bound for giving us ideas like this

TonyD

Senator

26th March 2003, 01:06 PM

Have just purchased two of the vests for $30 (total) from Jaycar - $15 each. Inside -

amplifier for each vest
power supply for each vest
shaker
chords etc

Its amazing that I could buy the vest for $15 yet the components individually added up to $40, the stupidity of it all. Best part is the vest looks like a piece of cake to dis-assemble to split out the shaker.

Might just have to have a play with the vest on the PC tonight, for scientific purposes only ofcourse.

TonyD

Slippery

27th March 2003, 10:41 AM

Ahhhhhh.......success.

My mate is shakin. We are all shakin.

Max...what have you started?:D

Slippery.

mikee

9th April 2003, 09:18 AM

Hi Guys -

A colleague alerted me to this thread as I am in the process of doing this myself in Aust to 3 lounges in my home theatre. Seeing that you guys are really movin with these things, I thought I'd drop you a line.

I see that the cushion was discussed, but I got a lot of chest mounting "aura interactors" are these the same 50W transducers as the cushion ? Obviously you just pull out the transducer from the chest "pack" and mount it where?

- under the seat where a person sits, ie a 3 person sofa with 2 cushions - one under each sitting spot ?

- What is rule of thumb of transducers per lounge ( serious ). My colleague has 4, I'd like to go to 2 on a 3 person lounge. What has been the experience so far with long term users with cheap/expensive/software/hardwood lounges - ie have they been falling apart quickly ?

- As to the amp ? is anyone drining it directly from their active subwoofer out speaker terminals directly as speakers ? My theory is to try it off a 300W Energy Sub to run in parrallel with the sub or

- use a dedicated sub amp, ie an ETO 480 amp module ?

- which media/DVD is best to test the transducers with - any recommendations

- Also any suggestions as to how to set them up, when you have a carpetted and concrete floor in the HT - Lots of dampening there ?

Well - gotta go - ggod thread !

Mike - Melb Aust.
;)

jmarshall

9th April 2003, 09:26 AM

Hey Mike,

I have 2 of the vest shakers in my Lazy-Boy. They work well. They're mounted on a bit of MDF that is bolted up to the rear of the seated portion. As it is a Lazyboy, there is a good amount of decoupling from the floor via the springs, so it doesn't need much to get them shaking.

I run them via the sub out on my receiver using the amps that came with the vests. I've modified the amps so that they are in a single enclosure and operate of a single volume control so I can control the shake level.

The shakers in the vests are identical to those in the cushions.

I like to use Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon to test the shakers - there are HEAPS of good movies (LoTR etc.) to do it with to. Dark Side has some nice low (25Hz ish) heartbeats at the start that should be felt more than heard.

The Lazyboy is still in one piece - but I have found that it is best to use these things subtlely. I have them set so they only hit during really high bass level scenes.

Hope this helps,
Jonathan

David R

21st May 2003, 03:03 PM

Jonathon,

I note that you modified the interactors so they operate off a single volume control.

Can you give me the details of how you did this?

I have two set up in the reclining couch, and another two to install in a second couch. I want to have one master volume for them all, as well as a single power switch.

My preference is to retain the individual on/off/ switches on each unit so that I can turn them on and off independently.
To get the single power switch I am going to wire the all the mains inputs of all the power packs together, connect to a mains power switch with a single 3 pin plug.
These things need to be simple for the rest of the family to operate.

I connect the interactors to the subwoofer output of the amp, but find that it provides frequencies up to 100Hz. I want to reduce this down so that the shakers only operate up to about 50Hz. The shakers seem to act like bad quality speakers at higher frequencies.

Does anyone know how to mod the 2K low pass filter in the interactor so I can achieve this?
The amp does not have an adjustable low pass output.

Also noticed that jaycar are now selling the interactors for $10/backpack, $15 Cushion. They are not included in there new catalogue so i suspect they are trying to clear all stock.
I think i will pick up another as a spare.

David R. (ex Kiwi from windy Wellington)

jmarshall

21st May 2003, 05:14 PM

Hi David,

I am using 2 shakers, so this was easy for me: I simply wired a dual-gang (Stereo) pot in place of the pots on each board. I then wired the transformers in parallel (primaries only) and switched the hot AC lead.

If you are going with more than 2 shakers, you could do a pot on the input (I assume they all receive the same input from the sub amp), and just leave the pots on the right up to max. IIRC the pots on the amp modules are just attenuation before the filter and amplifier section. I'd have to have a look at the board layout to figure out the lowpass filters and mine are tucked away at the moment.

Hope this helps - I can take some photos of my setup if you like and post them.

David R

22nd May 2003, 03:23 PM

Thanks Jonathon for your advise.

I will try the single POT setup this weekend.

I would be interested to see pictures of your setup if you could post them.

I am just monting all the interactors and Power supplies on a single piece of MDF wood. In future I may consider a better enclosure.

jmarshall

25th May 2003, 04:59 PM

Hi David et al,

You can get to pics of my setup through my HT page.

The main page with all links is here (http://www.massey.ac.nz/~jcmarsha/hometheatre).

The direct link for the shaker stuff (This may change!) is here (http://www.massey.ac.nz/~jcmarsha/hometheatre/shakers)

Cheers,
Jonathan

David R

26th May 2003, 03:32 PM

In connecting up my Aura shakers...
I note the the interactor amplifier in the cushion is different to the back pack, in that it has a couple of capacitors and three resistors and some other components attached to the underside of the board.

Does anyone Know what function these components perform, and why the difference between the backpack and cushion when they both drive the same shaker?

I noted that with the same level of input to both, the output level is different and the output RED LED flash at different levels. The cushion AMP with these mods is more sensitive

Jonathon, your pic's and info look good. I used a single POT and all seems to be working well.

maxcat

15th June 2003, 10:52 AM

Well I finally did it.

I blew one of these things. If anyone wants an almost dead Aura transducer it's yours for the cost of the mail. Do *NOT* connect this to an amplifier without knowing what you're doing.

Also I have been trialling some Buttkickers - they are simply extraordinary. The most powerful transducer I'be tried. Quite an experience.

During the depth charge scenes, my original Buttkicker lifted itself off the ground - it weighs 18 pounds!

Max Christoffersen

Senator

15th June 2003, 02:22 PM

So did it die on the beaches of Normandy like your old subwoofer?

:)

I take it the butt-kicker is obviously a whole new level of tactile sound?

I have been using 2 aura shakers in my couch for a while now and am really beginning to like the effect.

Sen

maxcat

15th June 2003, 02:52 PM

Yes the Buttkicker has a 3 pound piston suspended in a magnetic field.

The one I have is the original model. It looks like a piston head from one of those sideways mounted engines on BMW motorbikes..

The deep powerful effect is staggering. But you have to have the amp power to drive it. The new Buttkicker amp I believe is now available as a package deal and you would be wise to take it together.

Driving a voice coil is hard enough - but stopping and starting a 3 pound piston is in another league all together.

The only way I can describe it is there is just more 'torque' coming from these units.

I've modified the Fresh Ear seat (from Peter Tipa at www.goodhifi.co.nz) to accommodate the two Buttkickers and made a floor riser for the other two.

So the journey continues..

If you hear of tremors in the Waikato you can all say in unison: "..Max!!!!!...!"

Max Christoffersen

BigT[NZ]

19th June 2003, 12:29 PM

hey guys. just new to the4 forums today, couldnt resist reading this thread.
can someone tell me if the shakers are still being sold at jaycar?
and are they suitable for installing in a car.
i have a mini, with a sub in the boot, when you sit in the back seat it sounds/feels really good, but as soon as you get into the drivers seat, all that feeling is gone.

how easy would it be to hook this thing up to my amp or head unit?

Senator

19th June 2003, 12:38 PM

You can have a look at www.jaycar.co.nz and see. last time I looked they were still there (search for Aura).

I cant imagine why you couldnt fit them to a car, although they need to be mounted "solidly" to the object that you want to move (IE normally mounted to the chair in which you sit).

The only potential difficulty with using these things is amplifier power.

They are only designed to be driven by low output amps (around 25 i think), if your car amp/head unit has more power than that (and most do) you could very quickly blow up the speaker.

It seems strange that they work so hard with so little power, but they really do

Sen

OMG

I'm beginning to sound like Maxcat - pushing/promoting tactile sound, good grief

BigT[NZ]

19th June 2003, 12:55 PM

yea, my head unit is (claims to be) 50 watts per channel and my amp is around 200 i think. how did you guys connect your s to your stereos? are they all running off low output amps?

jmarshall

19th June 2003, 01:06 PM

2 in series will be an 8ohm load - it'll never get anywhere near 50W into that, so don't worry.

If your amp is 50W into 2 ohms stable, then parallel two of them.

With two you get better dynamic range, and at $10 each, you can't go wrong. (You could easily do 1 in each seat, and run them both off one channel)

As for in home use, they come with 20W amps, so no problem there!

Hope this helps.

BigT[NZ]

19th June 2003, 01:45 PM

oh ok, when i get up to auckland next...look out, hehe.

haytona

19th June 2003, 01:49 PM

i was in jaycar wellington today and they have sold out of the cushions. they are getting more in (don't know when) but new price will be $37.50.

Looks like I found this thread too late :(

Senator

19th June 2003, 02:06 PM

Not good.

Noticed that the backpack and the cushions are both gone from Jaycar's website aswell.

Pleased I picked up the backpacks when I did.

You could always just buy the shakers and get a spare amplifier to run them (I have a old pioneer amp that I bought obn trademe for $50 running mine, the amps/powerpacks are siting idle).

Sen

maxcat

19th June 2003, 02:27 PM

They're still there.

I was at Jaycar on Monday (collecting my commisssion).

That's why the Aura Interactors are now back to $30 a piece....grrrrrrrrr....

The real deal for bass-shaking cars is the Alpine Bass engine (aka the Aura Pro)..I have some lying around somewhere..

Max Christoffersen

maxcat

21st June 2003, 09:32 AM

Only in America: a Bass Shaker contest:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=190

Max Christoffersen

Senator

21st June 2003, 03:39 PM

It could be done here too Max.

I am sure there is more than one couch that you have been wholely/partially responsible for its owner putting it under the knife and adding shakers too.

Ofcourse, the shakers are the start of something far bigger, tactile sound, and from the Aura shakers can come the Clark transducers and Butt-Kickers.

I wouldnt want to get into a "mine is better than yours" argument cause I am sure it aint, but hey.

It does raise an interesting concept though Ed.

What about a members gallery so we can put photos up of all this wonderful "kit" (sorry Max, had to do it) that we all talk each other into buying?

Would this be possible?

Sen

maxcat

19th July 2003, 05:17 PM

Speaking of pictures, I thought some readers might like to see where I've got to with the new tactile project.

I've modified my Fresh Ear chair to accomodate two Buttkickers (V1); two Aura cushions: one Clark Synthesis Platinum and one Aura Pro. The chair is on a tactile-platform with a further two Buttkickers (V1). So four Buttkickers in total with 3 other tactile units to add some spice.

When this is all plugged in, my two seater will be powered with more than 5 Kilowatts of power.

The objective here is to have tactile sensation throughout the range: the Clark and Aura Pros offer a significant effect on the foot-rest, while the cushions take care of the back area and the Buttkicker handles the sub 40Hz area.

Each one of these units will be driven with a discrete level of EQ/bass recovery thru an AudioControl Phase Coupled Activator/Richter Scale EQ or Behringer Ultra Bass Pro coupled to the new Buttkicker amplifier.

You can see the Aura Cushions receesed into the seat which are then covered with a matching seat panel. The Aura cushions have been removed from their foam and are driving the chair upright after being built into two 'custom cushion cradles', to ensure they stay put and provide a solid paltform to work from.

All-in-all, it should be quite a ride!

Max Christoffersen

maxcat

19th July 2003, 05:25 PM

Here's the second shot of the Buttkickers etc and cushions in the chair back (the cushion cradles hadn't been invented at the time of this picture...)

I have actually modified the chair so it can be literally screwed into the platform for a robust and highly transmissive experience..

Max 'kick Butt' Christoffersen

Senator

19th July 2003, 05:28 PM

You are a nutter.

5 kilowatts of power in a 2 seater??????

I am pleased (as far as I know) that you dont do the same things to your car. Imagine Max's version of a boy racer boombox, omg, the car would need reinforcing.

Sen

maxcat

19th July 2003, 05:42 PM

Funny you should say that Sen...

The head of The Guitammer Company Inc (the Butkicker company) said much the same thing when he saw the pictures and I quote:

"Max, In my humble opinion - you are
insane!"Max" is certainly a fitting moniker!"
Mark A. Luden Guitammer Co Inc

What can I say - and yet when you see the big boys talking about their Odysee Syetem ($9000US on a good day...), you start to get the feeling there' still aways to go...

Max Christoffersen
:p

Michael Jones

19th July 2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by maxcat
"Max, In my humble opinion - you are
insane!"Max" is certainly a fitting moniker!"
Mark A. Luden Guitammer Co Inc

This is but one reason why I'm convinced that "Max" is short for "Maximum"

:D

tigermm

9th December 2003, 02:39 PM

Hi there, being the newbie on the forums, I thought I'd start with a n00b question :D

I have bought myself one of the amps that come with these kits just to have a bit of a play with, but I'm unsure of the power connections (I didnt get the power pack).
The website says it needs 12-0-12 volts, but does this mean that I should get a 240-12V transformer and run 12V to the two outer pins?
Looking at the circuit its just a simple half wave rectifier, but I just want to be certain before I go buying things/blowing them up.

Any help appreciated,
Mike.

maxcat

10th December 2003, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by tigermm

Hi there, being the newbie on the forums, I thought I'd start with a n00b question :D

I have bought myself one of the amps that come with these kits just to have a bit of a play with, but I'm unsure of the power connections (I didnt get the power pack).
The website says it needs 12-0-12 volts, but does this mean that I should get a 240-12V transformer and run 12V to the two outer pins?
Looking at the circuit its just a simple half wave rectifier, but I just want to be certain before I go buying things/blowing them up.

Any help appreciated,
Mike.

It's an AC transformer with the centre pin common (centre tap [top centre pin]) with the other pins the other two pins are attached and are not polarized, therefore the terms postive and negative do not apply. Across the centre pin to either of the outter pins you should get 11.xx . 12volts AC @ 1.25 amp

Or send me $10 (plus mail) and I'll send you an Aura power supply.

Max Christofferson