Marantz sr-9200

[Mohtfan]

I have had this receiver now since friday night, so this is only an initial view:

First of all it contains a button called re-eq.:mad: That's one button that is a waste of time and money. I inadvertently touched this button, trying to figure out how the remote worked. Then I turned on the sound - Terrible no highs, it was not until Sat. that I discoverd this was on and the cause of the terrible sound. Phew. The highs came back and better than ever. :D

This receiver had a major effect on my speakers, more so than expected. (Infinity ref61MKII) The full range of sound on these speakers was precise. I have had to change the setup of the speakers tho to fit the receiver better. I had them on major rubber stands, and the bass reflex hole stuffed with dense foam about 14 cm or so thick. I reduced this to about 3 cm as this gave a better bass sound. I also put a 3cm thick slab of marble (1.5 cm on the surrounds) and spikes on top followed by the speakers. (rubber-marble-spikes-speaker). However I only have spikes on one speaker and cannot buy some more until coming Sat. giving me a better chance to check the sound correctly as only one speaker has the optimum sound for this setup.

So not to bore you further some more info:

Alot of people including reviewers say this receiver is better for music than movies, altho I have only seen/heard 2 movies on it thus far they are equally good. I have tried rock, pop, jazz, house and classical music, cd's, scacd, dvd-audio. They all sound good, except that pop and rock are not upto scratch. When playing cd's on my old sony 930qs receiver a EQ was required, on the marantz no such thing is needed, the sound is very natural and has lovely mid's and high's. Movies sound more like you are actualy at the theatre :D . Basically its great.

However :(

There is a major problem, which I am not sure if I can correct. BASS. I've tried increasing the bass using the bass button, but this only causes the bass to sound incorrect. eg: when drums in classical music sound they are very tight and very beautiful except they lack volume (no, opening the bass reflex is not the answer, tried that). Also on movies when you get the dolby digital picture, when it hits dolby on the theatre in the movie theatre you get major bass here (I must admit that I could not get this right either on the sony). This seems to be the only downfall for music and movies alike. There are some settings I can play around with, so I will see if I can improve here on this problem.

Then a question:

I run the speakers with 2x 2.5 mm copper cables. If I changed these could I improve on the bass? eg 2x 4 or 6mm copper, or 2x 6 mm copper/silver mix? or?

I guess one probably needs better speakers as well. What about a larger sub?

Other faults:

Sound delay: i read about this and its true. Marantz needs to adress this with a software update. If you do not wait for a cd to be fully loaded the sound does not start until 3 seconds or so into the music. DVD when changing layer, the picture stops for a fraction of a second (unless you have a denon 3800 or so) but the sound stops for about 2 or 3 seconds. (this was not the case with the marantz dvd player sony receiver combi)

Power: I am a bit confused here. The sony was loud at 3 out of 10 (5x100watt), but the marantz has to be at about -15db (range: -71 to +18) to be about the same loudness (5x 140watt or so, I do not have a 7.1 setup at the mo), maybe also a cable problem for this setup? or?

DVD-audio/SACD: The sound is no longer better than the non high def recordings on the same disc, digital vs analog. the digital is just as good as the analogue? (this also show how good the receiver actually is (except for the bass) Could be a cable mismatch again? Digital I am running a van den Hul the first coax, and analogue profigold. So logically I would say the marantz brings the full potential out of the digital lower quality recording what the sony could not, and for the analogue real dvd-audio or sacd connection I require 3 stereo cables from van den hul to get the full potential sound as the profigold are only good cables for little money (well about 70 dollars for the 5.1 set about 3 years ago), and a good van den hull 5.1 set will cost me about 660 dollars or so - comments are welcome about this as I could be wrong. (cd also used to sound better over the analogue 5.1 (7.1) input.)

Finish: there is a plastic pannel right under the display and it looks more like it belongs in a supertech stereo, the edges are very rough and looks terrible. All the knobs are a bit stiff, but maybe they need a bit of wearing in? On the positive the whole thing looks great, but I want to point out whats wrong as there is no such thing as perfect.

So what do we have thus far:

Highs 10-/10
mids 10-/10
Bass 9.9/10 for sound, but 3/10 for volume

pop/rock 8/10 (possibly due to the bass)
other music 9/10 (only because of the bass volume, otherwise 10-/10)

sound delay 1/10 This is a major fault what marantz must fix for all 9200 owners in my opinion, tho not a sound problem a major irritant.

dvd-audio/sacd: Not sure, offcourse its good, but I think it should be much better, but as I said i think its due to the cables

playing it softly is not that good either, but here i believe this is 90% due to the speakers themself and not due to the receiver.

So I hope I complained enough for my initial review:
Is it perfect: no, is it great yes. Do you like mids en highs, movies and all types of music, buy it, do you only like house music or other heavy stuff with lots of boom that shakes the house as much as possible, buy an AIWA nsx-tr99

Equipment used:

Infinity ref61MKI 4x
Canton cm20 center
Aiwa TS-W7 subwoofer
Oehlbach 2x 2.5 mm speaker cables
Van den hul the first digital coax
Profigold 5.1 interconnect
Marantz DV8300 dvd player

Compared with sony str-db930 QS - previously owned receiver.

Price paid : about 5000 nz dollars

[Mohtfan]

The amplifier seems to need some time to ripen.

I noticed that the analogue input has now improved (better distinction between highs and lows and better seperation of instruments) over digital and I have not yet bought new analogue cables. Now I am just wondering how much longer the amp will improve before leveling off.

[Dave Bullet]

Really dumb question... not knowing anything about marantz HT receivers.... could be off track here!

does it have a "speaker size" setting? or high pass filter for the mains? If you've got your mains speakers set to "small" on the receiver - all bass gets fed to the sub. Try setting your speakers to "large" on the receiver. - or adjust the highpass filter so everything above 40 - 60Hz is fed to your mains (not 80Hz+ as is probably the default???

Just a wild guess...

David.

[Mohtfan]

Hi David,

I have my mains set to large and my center to small, High pass filter is not adjustable and I believe its set at 80, which my aiwa sub seems to like.

I also noticed that the mains plug must be the right way around, as this makes a big difference in distortion. I need to get a net filter to open the receiver further and rid it fully of mains power distortion.

I guess the more sensitive the equipment the more sensitive it becomes to bad outside influences. Or is it that I am just getting more picky than I used to be?

I need to buy new speakers (I feel the infinity ref61MKII are pushed to their limit, I do not mean volume, I just do not think I can get more out of them) but 6 new mains $$$$$ new center new sub all too much $$$, so I may end up doing the wrong thing by buying 2 new fronts as soon as i save enough $$. My center is of a different manufacturer and that's not a problem, so good new fronts should be ok too. But then which speakers? I want speakers with great detail in the high able to handel a fair bit of power, mid range that is warm and clear, and lows that are round (slow I guess?)

Upgrading is an expensive :( pleasure :D

[Dave Bullet]

G'day Moftfan,

You have your speaker setting correct by the looks of it. The only other thing I can think of that would give "soft" or weak bass would be speakers wired out of phase, or your sub working out of phase with your mains (the latter unlikely if you haven't changed it when compared to your previous receiver setup).

The 9200 is a top of the line receiver - I doubt it will be a problem with that particular model. You could check www.audioreview.com to see if anyone complains about soft bass in general. The only other explanation is a faulty receiver???

Sorry I can't help more on the "bass volume" issue. The only thing I can suggest is you get another loaner receiver from the same shop. Maybe a different brand or another Marantz SR model to see if it presents bass differently.... Better still - lug your speakers into the shop and plug and play to prove the bass issue to your retailer...

Speaker upgrades - have you thought about DIY??? Using vifa or Scanspeak drivers with a known crossover / kit should save you upto 50% on comparative retail models. I wouldn't DIY mains speakers without either a proven crossover network or the correct equipment to measure crossover response.

If you want to buy local (might be cheaper) - check out www.image-loudspeakers.co.nz (http://www.image-loudspeakers.co.nz) . You might get more bang for buck than an imported speaker. I know someone who has these paired with a Plinius amp for some lovely neutral and open sound. They use Morel drivers which (I've heard) are up there with the scanspeaks and vifas of the world.

Otherwise checkout dynaudio - my personal favourite....

David.

[Mohtfan]

Hi David,

I have done some minor changes and receive the full sound now however only when playing it loud, altho still not totally up there. I think this is part of the speaker problem, I need speakers that will sound good across the board at lower levels as well. I also think I should get a larger sub with a larger cone (I have ~ a 20 cm one) , the total living room / open kitchen is about 72 m2 or so (concrete walls). I saw a jamo with THX Ultra (13 inch cone), so may go that way (haven't heard it yet tho), this could boost the lower bass without upping the actual volume.

DIY speakers is not for me, I would end up with crappy speakers.

I'll check the phase with my special dvd sometime this week, but I am pretty sure its 100% ok.

I could up the bass by undoing the tweaks on the speakers, as I have close to a pure speaker bass, but that is not the answer in my case, also the bass becomes too boomy which i do not like. I have a nice tight/controlled bass (tho I made it a little looser :( to up the bass :). ), but want it more round, with more volume (not loudness). Maybe just need a speaker with larger cones like the kef TD12?

The mid and highs could be a bit better as well. If I compare my canton center, this has much better mids than the infinity.

I have also read that the bass is less than say a denon, but I do not think its the receiver, just my speakers. My speakers are much better under control now than they were before, but in the process I have lost some bass, so improvements in one area create minus points in another. I am pretty sure I have my speakers at their full limit what they can give, but its no longer good enough. In a month we are having a party at my place so will be able to get opnions of lots of others in one go,so i can see what they say in case I am the only fool who is picky :p.

[Dave Bullet]

G'day Mohtfan,

If you are thinking of a DIY subwoofer - I built one. The very first I built. Ok - I haven't been able to compare with a professional subwoofer, but it more than fills my 41m2 room (which is semi-open plan to the dining and kitchen - not included in the 41m2) and blends in nicely with the rest of the system. I know this because my wife / friends say "the system sounds nice, is well rounded with good treble / bass" - in other words the sub doesn't make itself noticed. When I turn it off, they say "wow".

I have a "low end" 2 channel system 40watt Denon receiver and some older 2-way sealed wharfedale speakers (both about 12 years old now but still going strong).

I use a 12" (30cm) Adire Shiva driver, driven with a dedicate plate amplifier. Sounds like you also need a similarly sized driver. Remember as far as deep bass goes - its about moving a lot of air. My 1 12" Shiva is equal to approx 3 x 6.5" woofers

The only complaint I would have is not that the bass is boomy, but that it lags slightly. In other words, the room tends reverberate / carry on after the speaker has finished playing a particular bass note.

It has also added ample bass to my system - both enjoyable for music and HT.

Sorry this is off topic. I'm just saying that DIY for a subwoofer isn't too hard (well, I didn't find it too hard!). And I am no woodworker! (It was the very first time I'd even used a jigsaw!)

Besides - for your party in 1 month. Use the power in the Marantz to blow up your Infinity speakers - then your wife (assuming you have one) will have to let you upgrade :-)

Cheers,
Dave.

[Mohtfan]

The only complaint I would have is not that the bass is boomy, but that it lags slightly. In other words, the room tends reverberate / carry on after the speaker has finished playing a particular bass note.

This is something I do not like myself, so have done as much as possible to rid my speakers of this problem.

I now have fixed the bass problem, well about 99% or so. I changed my 8 or so dollar extensioncord/powerboard for a 450 dollar one (no net filter). The bass came back, the full range became focussed, and the high's relaxed.:D.

I saw the sum of all fears last night and the helicopters sounded natural, bass drums sounded full - and that is something they really did not do before the new powerboard.

[Dave Bullet]

It does seem odd that the old cheapo power board was not a problem with your old sony receiver. If you can be bothered, I'd like to know if you get extra bass with the expensive power board on the sony receiver.

I hate to be cynical (or ask a dumb question) - but are you really sure the power board has done all this? (you haven't reconnected a dislodged or poorly connected cable when connecting the new powerboard).

Then again..... I managed to get rid of an annoying hum by earthing my DVD player! (looks great with this ugly green wire screwed into the chassis and fed into the ground pin of a 3-point plug!)

I'm glad you've sorted the bass problem. It is as frustrating as hell with these things - but very satisfying when you fix things in the end...

BTW - I've found the best HT bass test to be the LOTR - fellowship. The scene when they are in the mines of moria jumping from the collapsing bridges (and the balrog coming in) - very impressive!

If you want to stress your woofers for music - try and get a hold of an album by Laibach. This is the only thing that really gives my Shiva sub a fit!

All the best,
Dave.

[Dave Bullet]

The only complaint I would have is not that the bass is boomy, but that it lags slightly. In other words, the room tends reverberate / carry on after the speaker has finished playing a particular bass note.

I've largely fixed this by turning down the xover frequency on the sub I had it set too high.

Now the music is now quick and still deep. The driver has loosened up a lot after break in and I think that has helped immensely. It really doesn't sound like a sub at all, just like a good subwoofer should.

I highly recommend a sub. Some people would never play music with one.... I on the other hand know (with a 2-way - esp. 6.5" or smaller drivers) you are missing music without one!

Dave.

[Mohtfan]

It does seem odd that the old cheapo power board was not a problem with your old sony receiver. If you can be bothered, I'd like to know if you get extra bass with the expensive power board on the sony receiver.

I am sure it would have improved it a little, however i sold it hence cannot test this. And i would have never spent as much as about 30% of the full price of the receiver on a powerboard - way out of proportion. The sony had more bass than the marantz (marantz is known for less bass, hence the denon for example does well with many ht's as it has more bass, another good example of a bass oriented company is aiwa - ok different strokes), also the bass was very uncontrolled with the sony. The sony i think was much less sensitive to all that is good as well as bad, I think this must be a generalization between low vs high end. You change the poles on a ghetto blaster and well i cannot hear the diff. can you?


BTW - I've found the best HT bass test to be the LOTR - fellowship. The scene when they are in the mines of moria jumping from the collapsing bridges (and the balrog coming in) - very impressive!

I like the pod race in star wars.

Room acoustic also makes a hell of a diff. About 2 or so years ago I had my smaller ht setup (sony + current speakers, but only 52" widescreen tv) setup in a room ~ 5.5 meters by 3 meters and when there was lots of bass it just about blew you out the house. Now the setup is in a large room (including before with the old setup) and that greatly reduced the bass, for the better mind you, as sometimes there can be too much bass.

Settings ones speakers correctly, x-over and the size of the sub all do make a diff, but believe me when you have a more expensive setup its worth the money (or if your technical, build one for much much less) to spend on a good power board. Connecting a cd/dvd player to a filter is also supposed to help, but i have as yet not tried this.

[Mohtfan]

just an update

I had my receiver checked/repaired as well as upgraded.

First results:

Thus far no problems found whatsoever, only an overall improvement.

Bass improved, volume has increased giving it a better boom (tho not boomy), subwoofer out was one of the problems and was fixed and the bass overall was most likely improved cause of the software upgrade.

sound delay, no longer there (due to hard and software upgrade (this was a 9200 general problem))
:D , how it should have been from the start

Overall sound has become more accurate and tighter - upgrade related.

all 2 ch and 5.1 ch source can now be played as 7.1 when desired. - upgrade related

Basically my 9200 has become a sr9300, its now a THX ULTRA II machine, which has definately helped the overall sound in my living room.

Now the problems seem to be solved as well an improvement and supplement in software has made this machine a great one. I feel so much more pleased with it and can fully recommend anyone buying a marantz sr-9300.

However I will have to look harder to find faults as there is no such thing as a perfect machine.

[Mohtfan]

I spent 3 hours last night trying to find a problem. I still found none :D :confused: :) .

Anybody with a 9200 out there, you'll be really pleased if you have this upgrade done as bugs seemed to be fixed as well.

[Dave Bullet]

Glad to see the upgrade has made an improvement.

I'm thinking of getting an SR6300 (can't afford anymore at the moment - yeah - I should save up and get what I would love - but that will take a decade :)

I think Marantz seemed to have fixed most of the problems with the x200 series in the new x300 series (or so the reviews generally seem to point out)

all the best,
Dave.

[Mohtfan]

I think Marantz seemed to have fixed most of the problems with the x200 series in the new x300 series

Sure seems that way. I spent about another week trying to find problems, but I still cannot find any.

How good the 6300 is I do not know, should still be pretty good from what I hear.

And If you can save up for a little longer for a model close to what you would like you are less likely to want to upgrade too soon.

Maybe you should save for speakers you would like to keep for at least 10 years and then find the receiver to match, and if you have nothing at the mo but desparately want something for the next 2 years or so, why not buy a basic all in one for about 400 dollars? This will tie you over and makes a nice bedroom HT when you buy something better.


Mo