digital sources controversy

[PeteG]

hey guys, recently spent some time with a friend of mine in the hifi industry, and we completed an instant A/B test using a $155 Panasonic DVD player using its own inbuilt (16 bit!) DAC, and then used as a transport into the well known audiophile Sentec 24/192kHz bit DAC - abolutely zero discernable difference in the sound...and this was playing through a high end reference system!

why is this?

could it be that because the digital words coming from the cd are only 16 bit...that a 24 bit capable dac is overkill?

could it also be that tolerances for digital devices have increased dramatically in the last 10 years?

could it be that i have terrible ears? lol

questions and comments welcome!

[Stuzzo]

I can't comment on the two systems you tried but I find for me the best marker for distinguishing and comparing sources is the reproduction/ control of sibilance in vocals.

[Owen Young]

IME it's very rare to hear ZERO difference in such comparisons.

Sometimes such situations come about from a 'weakest link' in a system limiting what can be discerned...... or dominating/homogenising the character of sound produced?

[nixon76]

well known audiophile Sentec 24/192kHz bit DAC

Can you post details on this? I can't track it down. Cheers.

[PeteG]

Can you post details on this? I can't track it down. Cheers.

http://www.americansound.com/specials/used1.htm

this DAC is no longer available ie out of production, but here is a link to a page showing one for sale with a limited spec list...

made in sweden, google sentec "diana" dac..

i may have misquoted, not sure now if it is 192kHz upsampling...i think is a dual 20 bit design.

[PeteG]

IME it's very rare to hear ZERO difference in such comparisons.

Sometimes such situations come about from a 'weakest link' in a system limiting what can be discerned...... or dominating/homogenising the character of sound produced?

This is possible of course...the rest of the system to my understanding is as follows, any ideas as to the weak link?

interconnects: unsure of brand, but high end pure silver
amps: dual handbuilt sachem monoblocks, individual power supplies in totally separate industrial cases, sentec pre amp.
speakers: audio pro bravo fx-04 floorstanders
subwoofer: original audio pro Ace-bass patent subwoofer circa 1979 design by Karl Erik-Stahl
Nordost spkr cable...

[PeteG]

also I am currently demoing two new USB Dacs from StyleAudio in Korea, calld Carat HD1V and UD1 through my Lenovo thinkpad...will let you guys know how i go with that...so far results have been impressive, but will have better conclusion once everything has settled down and bedded in.

[cloth_ears]

This thread has certainly ended up in the right category.

[Michael Wong]

Ditto.

Contrary to Owen's experiences, IME, instant A/B switching often reveals nothing unless there are gross differences between the test subjects. Most listeners do will need to listen for longer.

I recently sat in on a retailer demo-ing new speakers to a customer. This evolved into a debacle involving three different speakers and three different CDP's. God knows how the punter could reach any meaningful conclusions.

:p

[PeteG]

Ditto.

I recently sat in on a retailer demo-ing new speakers to a customer. This evolved into a debacle involving three different speakers and three different CDP's. God knows how the punter could reach any meaningful conclusions.

:p

This is vey true...its always best to keep things as simple as possible...

[Owen Young]

hey guys, recently spent some time with a friend of mine in the hifi industry, and we completed an instant A/B test using a $155 Panasonic DVD player using its own inbuilt (16 bit!) DAC, and then used as a transport into the well known audiophile Sentec 24/192kHz bit DAC - abolutely zero discernable difference in the sound...and this was playing through a high end reference system!
I think I read Pete's orig post rather too quickly sorry... his operative word here is 'instant'...

I don't have a lot of time for A/B comparisons using any sort of intermediate 'switching' console or device. THIS often results in the sort of 'homogenising' effect that I mentioned.

I'm much more in favour of spending a good length of time* listening one setup, forming some 'musical memory' over many pcs of musical programme...before making any changes... & then change absolutely only ONE thing at a time.

[mihilli]

the well known audiophile Sentec 24/192kHz bit DAC

Well known to whom???? And who classified it as an "audiophile" piece of gear?

[conan]

Cheap players compromise their design/sound with:
1. bit shaving
2. jitter, jitter, jitter
3. naff power supplies, components etc etc

Serving a burnt meal in a top -quality restaurant doesn't make it any better!

[MarkH]

Perception is everything. If it's expensive it must be good. ;)

[frequentflyer]

hey guys, recently spent some time with a friend of mine in the hifi industry, and we completed an instant A/B test using a $155 Panasonic DVD player using its own inbuilt (16 bit!) DAC, and then used as a transport into the well known audiophile Sentec 24/192kHz bit DAC - abolutely zero discernable difference in the sound...and this was playing through a high end reference system!

why is this?

could it be that because the digital words coming from the cd are only 16 bit...that a 24 bit capable dac is overkill?

could it also be that tolerances for digital devices have increased dramatically in the last 10 years?

could it be that i have terrible ears? lol

questions and comments welcome!

Very surprising from my persepective. All I can say is that from my experience transports do sound quite different at least the ones have I have tried in my system, some more than others granted but that is why I went from a CEC transport to a Reimyo and was happy to stump up the $$$$$$$.

I am pretty sure the people who own transports with the VRDS mechanism in them would say the same.

Cheers

[Brian Ono]

Wow If it works for you do it. Source material can diguise system discrepancies and alcohol drugs tiredness even room temp and humidity can all play a role in influencing sound perception.Why do some of us enjoy crappy early blues recordings . Because it really is essentially about the music.