Sigh - indifferent service...

[beeman]

Having the opportunity to be in the "Tron" earlier in the week I ventured into a couple of the fine audio establishments in this town. I know much has been written about how difficult a business audio is these days & I fully understand this but my experience has left me wondering if they have any idea how to treat their customers.

The first shop has a name beginning with L, I was cheerfully greeted by one of the 3 staff members clustered around a computer in the office. The shop was a complete shambles. When I asked apparently they had to move from there storage with no notice - bummer. I am in the market for a nice TT arm or a pair of bi-wire speaker cable (short runs). I explained this, also noting that due to the storage clearout they may have come across some orphan cables. The salesman came up with a couple of ideas re arm options but not what I’m after - no prob. I said how about the cables. His answer was yeah I’m sure we will have something but I can’t look & the guy who can is out. I explained I had a silly amount of money in my pocket after selling a piece of equipment that morning & could he not have a look for me while I was in town. No he could not in fact he could not even give me the price of the cables he had on the counter. I asked are you sure & maybe take advantage of my spontaneous mood. Nope no way. He took my business card promising to ask the (only) guy who can look in the back room to come back to me later. WTF. I have heard nothing to date?

The second establishment begins with an A, I was greeted politely that the proprietor was on the phone & would I mind looking around. No sweat I was not in a hurry. After looking at every item in the shop at least twice, I then stood in the middle of the room & waited another 5 minutes. The conversation was clearly audible to me & it was a chatty conversation between mates. It was embarrassing to be left standing & I would suggest rude in the extreme to allow oneself to be overheard prolonging a social conversation. I left without another comment from the owner.

Sorry for the rant but how can these businesses possibly expect to survive when they do not seem to understand the most basic requirements of retail etiquette & I will have to take my money & spend it with someone who can be bothered.

[Owen Young]

I am in the market for a nice TT arm ...
Hang in there to audition omegaspeedy's nicely engineered Cocobolo 12" unipivot when it rolls off the production line.

[Dunnersfella]

I had a similar experience in Chch while looking for a USB DAC.
The first store managed to ignore me completely... so after lapping the store for far too long, I made tracks.

The next store (right next to the red zone) saw a lady behind the counter say 'hi'. Boxes were everywhere, the sound of concrete cutters were making the place sound like a building zone. Which, truthfully, it wasn't far off. With no one wanting to chat, I made my way to store #3.

At the next store, I got to talk with the owner. He explained the different DAC's they had in stock, even told me that the better of the options didn't require a particularly significant investment in cables to get the best out of it. Sounds good I thought. Then he asked what speakers / amp I had. When I told them, the mood soured. Significantly. To the point that he questioned the aspects he didn't like in the previous generation of speakers, smirked at my choice and then... walked off. I mean, walked off the showroom floor to do something in a demo room.
Turns out my money wasn't good enough for him, as he didn't like the rig I have at home.

The final store saw me wanting to darn well part with my cash... so I popped in. I walked to the counter where I know the USB DAC's to be located. Bending down to look at them, the sales person asked if I was leaning over because I was preparing to flog something out of the counter!
Wow.
Okay, so I passed it off as 'humour' and then asked if he had any DAC's. He said that he thought they might. So he looked through the cabinet, found a single example and pointed at it.
"Is it asynchronous?"
"I wouldn't know"
"Do you know what version of USB they've used?"
"No"
"Um... okay, is it any good?"
"I guess it must be... but I don't really know much about this new stuff".

So, I left.
Money in my pocket.
I feel for the store next to the Red Zone, they're on a hiding to nothing there. I understand that the first store may have been struggling to keep up due to customer demand / being short staffed. But to be honest, there was only one other person in there.
It's the last 2 that make me never want to return...

[cloth_ears]

Can't say I enjoy going into hifi stores. Crighton at the Listening Post in Christchurch is one of the few salesmen who I feel comfortable with.

I think most of my future purchases will be on line.

[SugdenA21]

Due to wanting better gear than my income allows, I've often bought second hand when possible. Last year I bought a new Naim NaitXS from Pure Hi Fi to replace my 72/180 combination. At the time I wondered whether I had made the right call dropping $4400 on an amp, but since then (and before too), the excellent service from Pure has made me realise it was a good decision. They have spent many hours of their own time helping me out, even on stuff I didn't buy from them (including my car!).

I'm sad you guys have had pretty shocking experiences with some retailers (I have too), but it's not all bad out there. By the way, I've got no connection with Pure other than being a happy customer.

[too_tall]

I know that others have not experienced the same service as I have in Hamilton, but the 2 stores which start with A both are very good at providing personalized service. However - these stores both operate more on an appointment basis ( The one in Hamilton East more or less exclusively ). The more retail type oriented of the stores has got someone on the floor who I have found is actually very, very good in picking what a customer is trying to convey regarding budget, wants in a system, and sound type being sought. But carrying large quantities of stock and elaborate store displays are not the name of the game in there. And after all, as anyone in the industry will attest, having large amounts of floor stock costs a LOT. This cost has to be passed on to the consumer - after all, its the consumer who wants to see all the audio porn on display. I suggest if thats the main criteria, go to Sydney ( not the best by a long shot, but close, and the large hifi stores in Sydney carry more stock each than all the hifi stores in NZ combined I think! )

The rather cluttered and messy L store in Hamilton is, I believe, shifting to another location. No real excuses for the total lack of apparent organization in store, and the store has looked like that for years now, but hopefully it may result in something more attractive to be near! As the OP said, its shocking. The staff can be rather indifferent too, although personally I have always been treated well and have received follow up calls to see if they can be of any more assistance.

Auckland stores, however. Well, Paul Turner has always been good in my experience, but other stores..... Maybe someone turning up in a dirty 4WD ute is a turn off, maybe its my sometimes very casual manner, but I often get the feeling I am an alien in their wondrous city, and really, could I please bugger off quietly without murdering someone on the way, back down to the bush I obviously evolved in. I often wonder if those people realize that even in the deepest, darkest parts of central Auckland, the dairy industry is one of, if not the, prime industry which keeps money flowing in this country?

[maxgate]

I have had consistently bad service, over three decades, from Soundline - so much so that I now refuse to buy from them. Every visit (three in Christchurch, two in Auckland) was an exercise in staff snobbery. If I want to be put down I can go to my teenagers, thank you; I don't need a salesman whose idea of PRAT is to behave like one.

In retailing, as Cloth Ears says, Crighton Weir of The Listening Post (Christchurch) is an industry model of how to listen to a (potential) customer and correctly assess their needs. He has never displayed the slightest snobbery and, if a sale is made, his follow-up service is superb.

From the 'appointment only' model, Peter Hardie of Reference Audio has sold more gear to me than any other New Zealand operator because, like Crighton, he expresses an opinion in order to meet the customer's stated needs rather than to demonstrate a specious superiority. His follow-up service is peerless - I don't think it can be improved upon. Peter honours his word.

Last month I purchased, via the link on this forum, a Bel Canto phono amp from the Audio Reference Company. The unit arrived promptly, well packed, and Terry Humphries sent an unsolicited follow-up query within the week to check that I was happy. Again, a positive industry model.

[eRaS]

I agree, Terry has always been very accommodating, helpful and polite. Jason (Parmenter) also.

[jasper]

As Beeman proclaimed "most basic requirements of retail etiquette" also applies to Trademe purchases. You don't always receive exactly what you know you bought. It's not just shops letting folk down. We do it to each other.

[omegaspeedy]

As Beeman proclaimed "most basic requirements of retail etiquette" also applies to Trademe purchases. You don't always receive exactly what you know you bought. It's not just shops letting folk down. We do it to each other.

On another note Jasper off topic, your link to you site doesn't work. I think the 'Bold' inscription is corrupting it?

[jasper]

Hey thanks Omegaspeedy.

You were right about the bold font. (how did you know that?) Much appreciated. Hadn't realized.

You can now click onto my site to your heart's content!

Cheers

Steve

[beeman]

So - its now been over a week. No one has come back to me with options as to cable. I have emailed asking why no one has called back & have been contacted by the owner apologising that the man I talked to was new back into the business & did not know what to recommend. He promised to take care of my enquiry but has not so far.

With my disappointment clearly explained, still nothing happens. This in my opinion moves from just a small customer care oversight to customer neglect.

[coleus]

you seem to have a bee in your bonnet (hahaha..sorry couldnt resist) , I wouldnt worry about it , vote with your wallet and go elsewhere , there are much better things to do than worry about people going out of business.
This is a typical occurance sadly , but with alot of small businesses it can sometimes come down to personalities , but as many have attested to above , once a good connection is made , it should be cultivated. It's just finding someone you click with that can be the issue.

[jasper]

Beeman I have a comment to make here and please pull me up if you think I have the wrong end of the stick.

I wouldn't normally write such a reply but you have begun a thread here complaining about perceived bad service you have felt you have got from various retailers.

At pretty well the same time you started this thread you have sold a turntable to a friend of mine which comes with a manufacturer-supplied strobe disc which is needed to set the turntable up correctly.

You said to him on the phone you would pack it with the turntable when he specifically brought up that subject because he knew it was needed and was part of the turntable set-up kit.

He was a bit suspicious when it was not sent as he knows your present turntable needs such a disc also and he suspects you have just decided to keep it for yourself after telling him you would send it.

In the end you did not send it and have now told him you are not going to and for him to download it from the internet.

It seems more than a little ironic you are complaining about bad service and at the same time are offering exactly that on a Trademe sale.

Have you any comment to make on this?

[beeman]

Yes - thanks for asking. I did omit the disc which is a strobe disk made from heavy paper. there is nothing special about it & it is not in any way specific to the turntable. I forgot to put it in the box unfortunately. His suspicion is misplaced as I have several similar paper disks. I suggested rather than sending it to him it would be easier to get one from the web

eg http://www.vinylengine.com/strobe-discs.shtml or http://www.extremephono.com/ftp/50Hz.PDF

The first 2 sites when you type in strobe disc to Google. These are at least equivalent to the origin one if not superior. If he cant or doesn't want to get one of the above I am more than happy to send him one of mine. I only suggested he do that to save waiting a couple of days for postage as I new he was in a hurry & had sent the turntable regardless of the fact he forgot the $50 postage because of the short week knowing he wanted it before the weekend. I will send it tomorrow.

As far as poor service is concerned. I have still not been contacted about the cables regardless of the promises to take care of me by the owner, so have given up on them. 3 weeks wait for Listening post to look & see if they have any speaker cables is just plain Pathetic.

The counterpoint to this is the absolutely fantastic support given by the programmer/owner of XXHighend audio software. The responses to my requests for help after running into problems with the software were prompt thorough and useful. Without exception my questions were answered in less time than I was expecting and in a matter of 24 hours my complicated problem was solved. Now that's how you do it.

[beeman]

Jasper

Could you please let me know if you have seen my post and will pass the info on. Here is the original Origin disc. I have found the one I have & it is made of stiff paper.

http://www.originlive.com/pdf%20manuals/strobe_disc.pdf

It is important to me that this is not seen as me not wanting to send this. I sent the TT immediately payment was received & it was with him 24 hours later regardless of him forgetting the postage. Which I would suggest was more than fair.

[jasper]

Hi Beeman

Yes I do think he would appreciate you sending the disc as first promised.

I think that would clear the whole thing up.

Shall I tell him it is on it's way first thing this week?

[beeman]

Yes thanks Jasper

Mr moderator - could you please delete this thread - it was a rant @ my frustration at seeing businesses I really care about so determined to fail. This is in such stark contrast to the service provided by a trader on the other side of the world. It has only resulted in negativity towards me & not in anything positive & as such is not helping anyone - cheers.

[cloth_ears]

Yes thanks Jasper

Mr moderator - could you please delete this thread - it was a rant @ my frustration at seeing businesses I really care about so determined to fail. This is in such stark contrast to the service provided by a trader on the other side of the world. It has only resulted in negativity towards me & not in anything positive & as such is not helping anyone - cheers.

I wouldn't sweat about this Stephen. Many of us (especially me) have made posts that we've later regreted.

[DodgyConnection]

Beeman's rant about poor service did not name the business involved - although it was easily guessed - and could be taken with a teaspoon of salt or not depending on the reader's experience with that (or other) retailers.

Jasper's issue with Beeman over what appears a very trivial issue should have been dealt with in a private message - I don't see the connection and it was not a good look IMO.

[jasper]

Just letting you know I did not post flippantly. I was hoping my first posting in this thread would have been enough to trigger some action on the strobe disc.
I am quite happy now to let the whole thing slide as it seems the trade will be completed to the satisfaction of all parties.

[jasper]

And I have to agree with you on this

"Two beers and a whisky - the tweak that never fails"

Mediocre can become marvellous!

[beeman]

Jasper - I went out of my way with this sale - I couriered the turntable even though the buyer had forgotten the $50 postage so he would have it before the weekend. I advised him that the best way to get a strobe disc identical to the one I will send him was on line so as to not hold up his enjoying the TT.

You say I
have begun a thread here complaining about perceived bad service you have felt you have got - when you say perceived I ask whether you think the service I have received is acceptable. I visited the store told them I had money to spend & was only in town for a bit - gave them my business card - was promised a call back in an hour or 2 - I emailed the office twice asking if they had found anything - no answer - I then received 3 emails from the owner apologising for his staff & promising to take care of me - still no answer to my original question?

Your post might not be flippant but certainly sounds defensive & I am glad you are prepared to
let the whole thing slide. & I will remember not to complain in the future so long as you don't complain when I am forced to purchase gear overseas because the retailers I have asked cant be bothered offering me product after 6 x requests. I so want to support your business but tell me how I can. As a representative of the industry & in its defence you then attempt discredit me publicly on anothers behalf about something I understood was a problem solved & without asking for the facts first. I would have to agree with Mr Dodgy - not a good look at all...

[Brian Ono]

"To Err Is Human - To Forgive Is Divine!"

[AgrAde]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have sent the TT at all without having received the agreed-upon freight costs. Businesses that fail to deliver on service and support should be named. I don't care to hear about personal trades unless it has well and truly gone awry.

To get back on topic, my dealings with the crew at The Listening Post in Christchurch have always been exceptionally pleasant. The advice I've received has always been honest, I've never felt as though the staff have tried to sell me something they didn't think I needed, they've been flexible and easy with lending gear, and they've always made an extra effort to make sure I get the right product at a good competitive price.

I've had good but limited dealings with Pure hifi. Not enough experience to stand behind a recommendation but a warm welcome to the store and a friendly chat with Bruce, who was happy to help. Will I return in the future? Definitely.

Top Hifi? I've been snobbed two of the three times I've been in there - once with $3k of notes in my back pocket - but the the third time was pleasant enough. Perhaps I should put on my nice jacket and my expensive watch before I enter? Staff so concerned about how much money I possess doubtfully have my best interests in mind.

[webbed]

I'd be pretty pissed off if my personal dealings came into question here, we all know that's plain wrong. NZ Retail service is suspect at best, I think with Hi-Fi somehow the line between tyre kicker and genuine purchaser gets blurred - That's no exscuse tho.

[Cooksferry]

I think with Hi-Fi somehow the line between tyre kicker and genuine purchaser gets blurred .

Trust me it's not just with HiFi.

[DodgyConnection]

I'd be pretty pissed off if my personal dealings came into question here, we all know that's plain wrong. NZ Retail service is suspect at best, I think with Hi-Fi somehow the line between tyre kicker and genuine purchaser gets blurred - That's no exscuse tho.

Totally agree.

I imagine Hi-Fi retailing can be pretty frustrating - for most people these are big ticket purchases and because dealers do not have vast product lines the buyer will always disappoint someone because they have to shop around to hear what is available - therefore "appearing" to be a tyre-kicker.

I'm pretty sensitive to the tyre-kicker label - I don't want to look like I'm wasting someone's time. Maybe one way to solve this would be for stores to charge a small fee for a proper bookable time slot to demo gear - that way you are engaging a professional service and if the product is not too your taste then at least the dealer is compensated for their time.

However, as a customer I expect to be treated with respect and courtesy and if requested a follow up should occur in a timely fashion.

I am in the middle of a major system change and have a pretty decent budget so this stuff is of interest to me. NZ is a small place and the hi-end market is smaller still - it doesn't pay to alienate people.

[Ernie]

Hmmm, interesting idea Mr DC.

I've always thought a demo fee refundable on purchase would be a fair way to go...

[beeman]

Thats a smart idea Mr DC I similarly am sick of being made to feel like I am wasting the valuable time of the retailer & would at this point pay to be treated seriously. Refunded on final sale - perfect.

To provide a final note in my regards to my request for information about cables. As I supplied a link to this thread in one of my original emails to the company the lack of response to date can only be interpreted as they choose not to do business with me. I respect the right of any trader to choose who the do or do not trade with. This is a fundamental right but to not have the guts to say so is just plain slack & that is my final word on the subject.

[gomer]

I worked in audio retail (mass market - south Ak) some 25 years ago and even then to not approach an in-store customer was considered a heinous crime by my boss...difficult to turn a prospect into a customer without communicating! Have had the joy of being in London for 10 years working for a private equity fund - yes, an evil banking fund - and never came across audiophile snobbery, often dealt with enthusiastic people and was given a list of jazz standards by one salesman. Now if its 'all about the music' then that was one good piece of salesmanship.

[webbed]

I just do not get a dealer, not dealing with, an enquiry.

In my opinion there is an underlying snobbery and arrogance that exists with audiophile groups, a kind of heirarchy based ostensibly on someones experience and the gear they have. I mean how could a guy who has a Bose is possibly be more informed than the guy with a MBL system? I don't think those barriers get broken down with dealers until a personal relationship and to some degree credibility is established. I guess we are all tyre kickers until we purchase something and validate the relationship.

In saying this, it doesn't bother me for one second, I can even understand it to a degree. The audiophile journey can be quite complicated and in my own experience is one of making mistakes, learning and correcting them. Possibly the decision making process gets blurred when we consider the alternatives, and at times this must be agonising for dealers who's interests and survival depend on obtaining customers and profitability.

However I will say that a dealer who goes out of his way (and there are a few here) to assist me in a courteous and personal manner gets my business (however big or small) any day of the week. And, probably the same can be said for the dealer and his client relationship. Nature of the beast I guess?

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to offend, however offensive replies are expected and will be tolerated.

[neil]

It is a tough one. Its not that hard to offer good customer service, but occasionally things do fall the cracks... although this seems a bit excessive, its like being actively ignored!

I think you are right on the money with the whole snobbery thing... people need to get over themselves. This is supposed to be fun, everyone has to stop taking it so seriously! We are listening to music FFS not saving the world from a killer asteroid!
Just because you have XYZ brand or have spent $$$$$$$ doesn't make you any more informed or special than Joe Bloggs who has a hand me down system....
Its about the music people!

[tkr001]

This is aimed at those in the retail side of things and is purely to understand a different perspective

What is wrong with tyre kicking? I do it often (sometimes I even bring coffee for the retailer) and actually enjoy seeing whats out there and chewing the fat. If a "real customer" comes in I expect them to be attended to rather than continuing to talk to me. This builds relationships and you can be sure if one of the retailers, who has indulged me, has something I want later down the track then that is where I will go.

What do the retailers think?

[neil]

We encourage tyre kicking... this business is about long term relationships, not wham bam sales....
We can't expect every customer who comes in to buy there and then, and it doesn't take that much effort to have a chat with some one...
If someone else comes in in the meantime, the tyre kicker usually understands we have to attend to them as well...

So basically I agree with everything you've just said Tony.

[webbed]

I think also there are 2 types of customers.

A grown up Johnny Rotten like myself; big passion, still has a want list, limited funds, purchases once or twice a year. Every purchase counts.

Alternative customer is perhaps of slightly different demographic, older, has $$$ capacity, knows what he wants /needs. Efficient buyer. Every purchase counts.

The 2 buyers are quite different, yet the end result is the same - every purchase counts. For the dealer the 2 processes are quite different. Can't blame a dealer for wanting customer 2.

Yet I can say despite being customer 1, I have had experienced service beyond the call of duty in respect of product and terms and makes you brand loyal forever! Perhaps it's up to the dealer to choose what strategic outcome he wants. Similarly I suspect there are a number of people out there who are a down right pain in the arse, wanting everything for nothing. I think it's nature of the beast.

Finally, snobbery is probably a touch harsh. More like "clicky". When I joined this forum I recall I was challenged / tested by a couple of punters - Tom and Jerry show I named it. That's cool, doesn't worry me it's just the way it is. Take it or leave it. Same with service, it has to be a 2 way street. Agree with Neil, who has always answered my queries efficiently...play the music.

Oh forgot, why is it some of the most efficient / pleasing purchases I've made have been over the net? Where personal relationships don't count, just the Audiogon "feedback" box that seems to make everyone equal. She's a crazy world we live in - best enjoy it.

[cloth_ears]

Oh forgot, why is it some of the most efficient / pleasing purchases I've made have been over the net? Where personal relationships don't count, just the Audiogon "feedback" box that seems to make everyone equal. She's a crazy world we live in - best enjoy it.

The internet is the great leveller (for those able to string together coherent communications).

So instead of the mutual first impressions being from visual clues, it"s based on statements of intentions along with the experience of how they are followed up.

[webbed]

Agree with that cloth_ears.

[Newbie]

HiFi retailers are evil!

I hate them, or rather hate visiting them :)

Because,

1. I feel so obligated to buy from them after they spend so much time demonstrating their gear (would be happy to pay a small fee for their service/time) or

2. They ignore me completely, so I walk out dissatisfied or

3. They have nostrilitis - whereby they stare down the end of their pointy nose at me, so I have to question my BO...or

4. They are so damn pleasant, helpful and friendly that I have to question their evil self serving motives!

Thankfully, most fall into category 4.

[cloth_ears]

4. They are so damn pleasant, helpful and friendly that I have to question their evil self serving motives!

Thankfully, most fall into category 4.

Hmmmmmm....

The force is weak in this one (evil laughter ensues)

[neil]

"This is not the hifi you are looking for....". Mwahahahahahaa!

[nixon76]

Auckland stores, however. Well, Paul Turner has always been good in my experience, but other stores..... Maybe someone turning up in a dirty 4WD ute is a turn off, maybe its my sometimes very casual manner, but I often get the feeling I am an alien in their wondrous city, and really, could I please bugger off quietly without murdering someone on the way, back down to the bush I obviously evolved in. I often wonder if those people realize that even in the deepest, darkest parts of central Auckland, the dairy industry is one of, if not the, prime industry which keeps money flowing in this country?

I remember in my youth being told that Hamilton retailers (of anything) looked forward to the National Fieldays (sp?) with glee, knowing the (real) money that was about to roll into town. Look like you've come out of the bush? Welcome, welcome sir. They knew what side of the bread was buttered.