Streaming Audio - advice for a novice

[Ruahine]

Evening fellow Audioenzers

I have been toying with the idea of entering the 21st century and getting into wireless streaming of digital music. I like the idea of having all 400 of my CDs instantly accessible and hopefully sounding as good as the original CD.

Now I have done a bit of research and I like the thought of ripping my CDs to some kind of lossless audio format (like FLAC), storing them on an NAS-type device and then wirelessly streaming my music through a Streamer>external DAC> to my stereo. In the past I have tried using an Apple Airport Express but it doesn’t work well with my DAC (CA 840C).

I don’t want to have to run a computer/laptop in order to listen to my music, hence the streaming-device and NAS. I also like the idea of having my music available on the network, as opposed to an external hard-drive, both for ease of backup and also if I want to stream to another room in the future.

So I have a few questions, hopefully some people have been down this path before and can offer some advice. Bear in mind that I am not hugely computer-literate, and we only have Macs in the house.

1) Can anyone suggest some good software suitable for ripping CDs into lossless format such as FLAC? The software has to work on a Mac. Ideally I would like to create a lossless format for the HiFi and a compressed format for my iPod at the same time. Also, software that easily incorporates album artwork and album data would be beneficial. Obviously there is iTunes, but maybe there are better options out there? I have found this http://sbooth.org/Max/ for ripping FLAC on a Mac and also this: http://www.blisshq.com/feature-freedom.html for album artwork but don’t know much about either.

2) Which wireless streaming device would people recommend Squeezebox-Touch or the Sonos? I will be running it through an external DAC so quality of the inbuilt DAC isn’t the issue, more ease of use, connecting to network and especially the ability to make playlists. I am leaning towards the Sonos at the moment as it looks easier to set-up.

3) I have no idea about setting up an NAS system. I know I can buy some user-friendly ones like the Netgear ReadyNAS Duo, but I am unsure if this will be suitable for my needs.
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=15587
I just want it to be able to stream audio effectively, no skipping or dropouts. Can anyone recommend (or rule out) a particular NAS? I also understand that if I go down the Squeezebox route I will need to install server software on the NAS. We have a wireless network currently running in the house.

Again any advice or tips from people who may have been down this path before would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Jono.
:)

[kaka]

I can't comment on wireless dropouts but I can comment on Netgear ReadyNAS - solid, reliable, makes it easy to add an extra drive (I went up from 3 to 4) but SLOW ....

Unless they have lifted their game, the processor in it is a bottleneck. There are some other brands that achieve 4 or 5 times more routine throughput (they get close to what gigabyte ethernet can do) because their processing core can quickly chop the data up and feed it out across the set of disks.

[Ruahine]

I can't comment on wireless dropouts but I can comment on Netgear ReadyNAS - solid, reliable, makes it easy to add an extra drive (I went up from 3 to 4) but SLOW ....


Thanks for that info. I had read on the logitech forums that the Ready NAS Duo was too slow to run the Squeezecenter.

Could you recommend another brand/model?

[kaka]

I play off an external drive attached to a Hackintosh, and my issue was file transfer speed from the NAS for moving data about. I was software upsampling on the mac and moving the files back to the NAS for awhile, so transfer speed was frustrating then.

Playing straight off the NAS doesn't sound at all good in my setup, hence the external drive. I don't know if that relates to NAS speed, or is inherent in Mac networking and data buffering in the player. So no promises that one of the faster ones will produce sonic benefits for you.

The higher speed NAS cost far more - I looked at Synology, Thecus and Qnap when NAS performance was more of a concern.

[too_tall]

If you want a fast NAS box, make one with a lowish power CPU and put it somewhere the noise and bulk wont be an issue. Cheap, very fast, very configurable and expandable.

[tkr001]

If you want a fast NAS box, make one with a lowish power CPU and put it somewhere the noise and bulk wont be an issue. Cheap, very fast, very configurable and expandable.

Yep and if you use freenas you can run squeezebox server as a service on the same box.

[Dunnersfella]

Another option...
Get yourself an Apple TV, jailbreak it, then install XBMC onto it.
This will allow you to stream FLAC files via a NAS - while using the iPod / iPad XBMC application.

While the XBMC jail break can be a little buggy, it's worth it in my experience. Although, I don't stream via wifi, only ethernet... and instead of a dedicated NAS, I use the somewhat slower Apple Airport Extreme with a USB 2.0 HDD attached.


For ripping, I use xACT. It allows me to manually add my meta-data (including previously sourced album artwork). I then use XLD to convert my files to Apple Lossless. That's the quick part... whereas xACT is a relatively slow, somewhat tedious process.

[crazydiamond]

I just found this article on a NAS/Squeezebox combo.

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/ripnas/trio.html

[Ruahine]

For ripping, I use xACT. It allows me to manually add my meta-data (including previously sourced album artwork). I then use XLD to convert my files to Apple Lossless. That's the quick part... whereas xACT is a relatively slow, somewhat tedious process.

Thanks for that info, I will look into that software.

[Ruahine]

If you want a fast NAS box, make one with a lowish power CPU and put it somewhere the noise and bulk wont be an issue. Cheap, very fast, very configurable and expandable.

I think that I will stick with a proprietary one, making an NAS is probably a bit beyond me.:)

[Ruahine]

Playing straight off the NAS doesn't sound at all good in my setup, hence the external drive. I don't know if that relates to NAS speed, or is inherent in Mac networking and data buffering in the player. So no promises that one of the faster ones will produce sonic benefits for you.


Thats interesting. I never thought that using an NAS would have sonic differences over an external HD.

I have tried streaming my Macbook wirelessly through an airport express into my DAC. It was awful. :( Kept getting clicks in the music, which was somehow related to my DAC and the airport express not communicating properly. Was Ok if I used the analogue out from the airport into my amp.



The higher speed NAS cost far more - I looked at Synology, Thecus and Qnap when NAS performance was more of a concern.

Thanks, I will look into these.

[tkr001]

or perhaps a Vortexbox.....

[kaka]

Thats interesting. I never thought that using an NAS would have sonic differences over an external HD.

Probably the timing of the flow of data to the dac wasn't exact enough.
Dacs set up for network based data supply should buffer enough data in to cope with any network variability, and then reclock it to get the flow to the dac chips perfectly on time.

Your SB will be designed to operate with network flows, my dac isn't

[jcooze]

I've got an older PC: Dual-Core, with 2 x 2Tb Hard drives in it, running Windows Home Server. Works as a NAS and stores/serves everything media wise. There's a couple of hundred Gb of FLACs on it.

This means I can fire if off to my little "media player" (Small form factor PC, SSD and Musiland USB DAC) if I want decent listening thru my 2-channel Amp. Or I can feed it to my main PC and listen to it thru headphones.

The later of these I'm doing as I type; my daughter is feeding a video to the HTPC, watching with a friend, I'm listening to the Stones!

Got a Gig switch, which may make a difference, and we don't get stagger at all. The NAS serves as a print server and is currently serving up Linux ISOs on uttorrent too. So it is under a load and handles it well.

We've only casually explored the wireless side of things for videos, so I have no idea how it would serve up wireless music. Based on our experiences I wouldn't see wireless music as being as demanding as video which it handles well over wireless to our laptops.

[Ruahine]

Ok. Quick update.

I have got a QNAP NAS on the way with a 1TB drive. Will get that setup on our network and start ripping my CDs to FLAC with the MAX software.

Still haven't decided on which streaming option to use yet. Probably either a Squeezebox Touch or a Sonos.

[johnnyrs]

have you looked at the Cambridge Audio NP30? I was in the same situation as you - wanting a streaming device to pick up music from a NAS. I came across the NMP on the web which promised to do what i want and ended up with one a few days later.

It took minutes to set up and sounds FAB. The only drawback is that decent remote control is via an iPad/Pod/Phone or it involves ongoing scrolling through lists of artists or albums or songs-proving to be quite time consuming with thousands if files. But it does sound great and i can finally experience the wonder of hi-res audio..

[Ruahine]

have you looked at the Cambridge Audio NP30? I was in the same situation as you - wanting a streaming device to pick up music from a NAS. I came across the NMP on the web which promised to do what i want and ended up with one a few days later.

It took minutes to set up and sounds FAB. The only drawback is that decent remote control is via an iPad/Pod/Phone or it involves ongoing scrolling through lists of artists or albums or songs-proving to be quite time consuming with thousands if files. But it does sound great and i can finally experience the wonder of hi-res audio..

Thanks for the heads up. I had heard of the NP30 but I read a few reviews saying the interface was a bit clunky. How is controlling it through the iPad? Can you make playlists and search by genre, and does it display album art?

This looks interesting as well, although it may not make it over to NZ
http://simpleaudio.co.uk/

[kaka]

This looks interesting as well, although it may not make it over to NZ
http://simpleaudio.co.uk/

Nice site, but nowhere does it seem to say what sampling rate it can handle (24/44, 24/48, 24/96 ???) or what the dac is

[johnnyrs]

Thanks for the heads up. I had heard of the NP30 but I read a few reviews saying the interface was a bit clunky. How is controlling it through the iPad? Can you make playlists and search by genre, and does it display album art?

I don't have and iThingy, but the screenshots I've seen suggest it works like itunes, flicking through the albumart etc. I expect the app would create playlists. It does pick up any playlists sitting sittin on your NAS under Playlists in its menu.

[johnnyrs]

oh, and its internet radio is great fun. I enjoyed exposing my young ones to various dub stations from around the world tonight

[Ruahine]

Nice site, but nowhere does it seem to say what sampling rate it can handle (24/44, 24/48, 24/96 ???) or what the dac is

Reading on some other forums it supposedly can handle 24/96. Also you can get a controller as well as downloading apps for your iWeapon-of-choice. Early days though, as I don't think its actually been released yet.

[Ruahine]

I don't have and iThingy, but the screenshots I've seen suggest it works like itunes, flicking through the albumart etc. I expect the app would create playlists. It does pick up any playlists sitting sittin on your NAS under Playlists in its menu.

Sounds good. I actually have a bit of cambridge equipment so it wouldn't look out of place on the rack. Trouble is I don't have an iThingy either:)

[kaka]

I've been told by a SB Touch owner that it got significantly better with an improved power supply, rather than the wallwart. He is using a really good DIY design - the Sigma 11. (http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/)

[Ernie]

Nice site, but nowhere does it seem to say what sampling rate it can handle (24/44, 24/48, 24/96 ???) or what the dac is

I think it's either a Wolfson or Burr Brown... doing 24/192. There might be representation here. The director of sales was at CEDIA showing off some working models in Auckland earlier this year.