I'm in a bit of a lather about MC loading...

[analogism]

Searched the web ad nauseum, and the thread on the Dl103r got me a little closer, but when the manafacturer states the cartridge load impedance at 10 ohms, do I start with the lowest 100OHM loading and work my way up?

I hear that should give me some HF roll off, and higher I go the brighter the result, to put a very generalised spin on it.

Also looking for advice on a MC cartridge to suit my rig in the signature. Please offer your wisdom.

[Michael Wong]

Start at 100 ohms and work up or start at 47k ohm and work down...

Either way with the 103R/Ph3D you'll probably find 100 optimum as that's as far down as the Ph3D goes and yes, with this cartridge as you go up it will sound brighter as control over the highs is loosened.

As to other cartridges, don't you like the Denon ?

[beeman]

I had the Ph3d @ 100 ohm with the denon 103R - worked for me- is your denon nuded or in a wood body ? if not it should be

[analogism]

Ain't got a denon yet - just taken the FR1 Mk3 off as its old - and getting older....

[Owen Young]

Here's the FResp of the 103R with 47k load

6916

[Owen Young]

Here is the FResp with 100 Ohms load:

6917

[Owen Young]

Firstly you can see that the 103R has typical MCoil HF peaking.

Secondly, it isn't visually a strong effect, but you can see that loading 'down' tends to damp/tame the peaking/resonance.

At same time the bass is starting to exhibit some rise/loosening, possibly loss of control.

These graphs which I've just stumbled across, courtesy of John Elison, are v illustrative.

Overall, I have to say the 103R performance doesn't look that appealing, a bit 'hifi' maybe?
But ahem, WT*DIK, plenty of happy 103R owners out there.

[Owen Young]

Oh, and with 14 ohms specified coil impedance, I would load the 103R with ~140 ohms, for starters.

[Michael Wong]

Ph3D won't do 140 ohms...

Only 100 ohms, 200 ohms, 1K ohms, 10K ohms, 47K ohms

[Owen Young]

Yes, that's just a guideline really, 10x coil imped.

What the graphs don't show, is that when loading gets inadequate, power delivery suffers...things start getting soft, dull, undynamic. For a MC cart that might be down below 8-10x coil imped (from the relatively little experience that I've garnered).

[wizard]

Hi Owen,

On another tack - The DL-304 frequency graphs are done with a 1000 ohm load - they recommend 100 ohm load - go figure.
So what will I do - run it thru the perreaux me thinks not the project.
Dang interesting this cartridge loading thingy.

[Owen Young]

I would start with ~470 ohms for the DL304, as published info sez that 'output impedance' is 40 ohms.

Look, this loading issue is just a starting pt, do not be afraid to experiment. Other factors can come into it, including personal taste, system balance, method of loading provided by the phonostage...etc etc. However it's handy to have some understanding of the physics/mechanics at play, with MC loading. Often it's at best a compromise, as carts are not perfect beasts.

PS. I would have thought ~270 ohms absolute min. for the 304.

[omegaspeedy]

Nice advice Owen! All the info you read in the other forums is just a guide. If your phono has multiple settings start at 10X coil impedance and move up and down giving some time to get used to the new setting before trying the next. You will get a good feeling for what you personally like the best (which may not be the popular setting seen in other forums!!) A lot is at play as mentioned above.

[analogism]

Interesting stuff - re jigged the fidelity cart to 200ohms with 2.2 grams tracking force and a higher VTA. Also found some gold headshell screws and used a baerwald 2 point for aligning. Cleaned all the points and put fresh energisers in the stage.
after extemsive headphone listening last night (rastaman vibration, amnesiac, and brothers in arms) I've decided to keep running the FR for at least another few months.

Still making sweet noises.

The 103r is one of many possibilities - at least I have some flexibility with loading/understanding now.

[Owen Young]

The FR-1 Mk 3 is a mystery to me...I have studied a FR MC-201 once, I understand that the FR1-1 was low output (0.1~0.2mV) but is it correct that the Mk3 is high output (1mV+)?

If so, coil turns/impedance will be much higher & consequently, loading should increase also.

[analogism]

Ok. So in terms of my sutherland, crank the loading more than 200ohms? I like how it sounds for now but will experiment all the way up.
Thanks for your advice - but the Fr1 Mk 3 is low output, (you mean gain ay)??

[analogism]

And an interesting discussion about my FR-1mk 3 can be had here, http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3931&sid=6a4624e67cf549c3fb7f91bb29530faf where it is deemed as one of the best LO MCs ever made - I wouldn't know about that as I have not tried many - but it certainly kicks the bum off an ortofon 2m bronze... if you like lots of warmth and HF roll off, which I do, because my Missions don't!

[Owen Young]

Is the Fr-1 Mk3 similar to the FR-1 Mk1/2?
ie. low output around 0.14mV?

I'd listen to 200 ohms for a day or three, then try 100 ohms.

Go back to 200 ohms, then try 1k.

[40Hz]

I'm so sorry....

[analogism]

Is the Fr-1 Mk3 similar to the FR-1 Mk1/2?
ie. low output around 0.14mV?

I'd listen to 200 ohms for a day or three, then try 100 ohms.

Go back to 200 ohms, then try 1k.

Just to humour you Owen, I followed your advice. Being naturally lazy I have my Sutherland set up sideways on a wall mount so I can change interconnects and get the top off easily.

Each setting was used with the same merlin cables and cartridge settings and the same LP - a mint copy of Marley's Survival. I gave each setting a good 2 days to settle in and listened to a few other LPs to clean the palate, using the little sonic signatures and background vocals for 'analysis'. Carlsberg, Stoke Gold and Moa added to the ambience over the last two weeks.

I found the 100ohm setting - my original loading that started the post - too warm, too dull, too 'mono' sounding - The 200ohms was much better, more dynamics, better definition on vocals, and the bass was tighter.
Lastly, the 1K setting, which is my favourite - more sparkle but still good bass.

As an aside, I recommend the Stoke over the Moa.

[Owen Young]

Ha ha good.
It sounds like you are in the right ballpark now that suits your ear :)

[Papa Hemi]

Stoke over Moa?
Just too show as in loading - beauty is in the eyes/ears/taste buds of the beholder.
Give me a Moa any day, something a bit metallic in the background of Stoke.