Stax revisited

[Cooksferry]

It appears that I'm really about to go over to the dark side and become a Stax owner. A couple of years ago I posted my thoughts here on a Stax headphone system comprising Omega 11 Sr-007phones and SRM007t amp. My reactions at that time ranged from initial euphoria to eventual...well they're ok, bit pricey and I prefer my current phones.

A few weeks ago I decided to take advantage of the high dollar and look for a top line set of phones that would give me a good contrast to my long established line up of Grado and Audio Technica headphones.
The ones that caught my eye were the Audeze LC-2 but deeper investigation revelled a couple of possible hiccups in a purchase, namely I would possibly need to get another amp to get the best from them plus also consider a recable.
Call it adavancing age but I'm also getting more reluctant to fire good money away without the chance of a home audition, so I pulled away from the Audeze, briefly considered replacing my MA speakers with some Sonus Faber stand mounts,before another alternative appeared.

My friend who had lent me the Stax system in 2009 hadn't even unpacked them since their return so I hit him up on possible sale.
Needless to say the phones/amp are now safely nestling in the man cave, a price has been agreed upon and I'm 99.9% sure of completing the deal.

On reappraising the Stax the clarity of the sound stands out. The upper treble still sounds sounds a little rolled of compared to my dynamic phones but then many consider their sound to be forward or in some case, shrill, especially the Grados.
The midrange leaves any other phones I've tried for dead. Acoustic instruments and vocals are especially fine and natural sounding. There's plenty of pace and attack in percussion with only the lower bass perhaps being not quite as quick as the RS1s but deeper and with more body.

I have seen in at least on review mention of the soundstage giving the listener a perception not just of the performers and instruments but of the room its self and I'd have to agree. Hard to put into words but rather than a flat side to side image the Stax offer a more refined 3D version. The closed AT wood phones can do a similar trick but not to the same extent as the Stax.

There is the cliche that Stax phones dont excell with rock music and after this short re-aquaintence and some Metallica I'd perhaps agree but I'll reserve judgement at this stage and the temptation to keep swapping phones around until I gain a better formed opinion. Since I manily listen to heavier rock via the speaker system it's not really a problem.
Playing the reissued Dead Can Dance MoFi vinyl they were all I could wish for, even with a cartridge with only a couple of hours up.
One thing I hadn't noticed with the SRM007 amp during my earlier loan was the split channel volume knob allowing individual balancing of each side, neat and ideal for a crusty oldie with poorer hearing on one side than the other.

The biggest problem with this audition is adjusting after so many years with my other phones to the different approach of the Stax.
At this stage however it looks like my collection will be gaining headphone number 7 and amp number 5 . Shame I only have one head.

[kaka]

You might be able to adjust things a bit with alternative tubes - there are some threads around on that

[Cooksferry]

You might be able to adjust things a bit with alternative tubes - there are some threads around on that

Yes, I have been looking at that possibility. There are some spare tubes to go with the amp but I'm waiting for the owner to find them before making any purchases. Fortunately a matched quad shouldn't be too difficult or expensive.
The only hesitation I have is rebiasing the new tubes. There is no manual with the amp and I cant find one online although I have found a thread on Headfi outlining the procedure. Having had 2 fairly serious boots from electrical items over the years I'll probably send the amp to Soundline and let their tech do it.

Have to admitt I had some serious thoughts about an Eddie Current amp like yours Kaka but would still have wanted to add a pair of phones like the LC-2 as well. Lovely amp though.

[kaka]

It would be interesting to hear Stax again (mine went to Maxgate, who sold them on recently) now that my source is far better. It was an Offramp and Altmann dac at that stage.

The AT2000 (that you have) have been in action again off the Eddie Current, and they are excellent. A good valve amp transforms them, I still don't rate them off my solid state amps.

BTW I've exchanged the odd email with Craig Ulthus (who is Eddie Current) and he mentioned that they are a personal favourite, and he has rewired his for balanced use.

[Cooksferry]

The AT2000 (that you have) have been in action again off the Eddie Current, and they are excellent. A good valve amp transforms them, I still don't rate them off my solid state amps.

BTW I've exchanged the odd email with Craig Ulthus (who is Eddie Current) and he mentioned that they are a personal favourite, and he has rewired his for balanced use.



Very under rated headphone IMO. I like them with the Yamamoto but they do tend to pick up any tube noise more readily than my other phones. I've found the WE408As that the Yammy uses pretty variable in quality .

[Cooksferry]

On reappraising the Stax the clarity of the sound stands out. The upper treble still sounds sounds a little rolled of compared to my dynamic phones

Seems I may have to revise my opinion on the treble sounding rolled off. Maybe the amp just needed a really good warm up after a couple of years down time or my ears are adjusting, but no lack in the upper register during a long session on Sunday.
I've also found the position on the inner ear pad has quite a bearing. The cut out is D shaped and the position of the flat face also changes things, foward,less bass more treble, not quite so tubey in the mids and the reverse with the flat to the rear.

[Cooksferry]

While I said on my initial post that I was 99.9% certain of buying the Stax combo the missing 00.1% has won out and I wont be adding them to my collection.
It seems that my ears for some reason dont like these headphones. I have tinnitus in my left ear about 50% of the time and using the Stax appears to have aggravated this. I certainly dont listen at high volume levels but for whatever reason it's there and something I haven't found with any other headphone.
I did have a couple of other concerns, one about the need for biasing the tubes and getting accurate information on how to do that, the other being replacement ear pads. The foam under the very nice leather pads deteriorates with time and replacement pads are around US$140..mmmmmmmmm.

Before I packed the Stax away last night I lured my wife out to the man cave for a comparison trial between the Stax and my Yamamoto amp/ATW5000 combo. She has absolutely nil interest in audio gear, but loves music , spending hours watching opera on You Tube.
I ran a couple of tracks from the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Remastered 2xlp. Without hesitation she picked the Yam.W5000 combo declaring them to be more life like while she felt that the Stax may have presented a better technical picture, she would have tired of them very quickly.

So now the hunt for another pair of high end phones will recommence and it may well come back to relooking at the Audeze LC-2, the Denon D7000 and maybe the latest offerings from Beyer. Shame it's so difficult to audition anything here.

[Ernie]

Yes, those electrostatics are over the top. I've tried AKG K1k's and they were relentless. A whole album would have been exhausting. I could only hack a couple of minutes.

[kaka]

Beyer 990s Cooks?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Headphones/auction-397819252.htm

[Newbie]

More like T1's?

Or can you buy some Senn800's, HiFiMan HE-6, Grado Ps1000 and tell me what you think? :-)

Cheers
Cliff

[Cooksferry]

More like T1's?

Or can you buy some Senn800's, HiFiMan HE-6, Grado Ps1000 and tell me what you think? :-)

Cheers
Cliff

If the HD800s weren't so expensive, and more importantly, if I was sure I had an amp that would drive them properly, I'd have them high on my list. Of course there seems to be the usual Sennheiser caveat that you need to do a recable to get the best from them.

The Beyer 990 can be had fairly cheaply with a little shopping round but I dont know if they're any better than the DT880. I've never heard a Beyer headphone, maybe I'm missing something.

[Ernie]

Or Ultrasone Edition 8s in the same ballpark as HD800s or PS1Ks.

[kaka]

I think you made a good call on the Audeze Cooks (depending on your amps character perhaps).

I've just swapped back to the Grado PS1000s from the AT2000s. The Grados provide more at the top end than the AD2000s, and they in turn do more than the Audeze.

Having said that I think my rating using the Eddie Current amp is AT2000 - Audeze - Grados.
The Audeze mid-range is stunning.

[Cooksferry]

Pity there wasn't an easy way to organise a headphone get together. There appears to be several forum members with well setup systems and it'd be great to actually be able to audition various phones.

If there's any one who is seriously interested in purchasing the Stax system mentioned in this thread drop me a pm. It really is in excellent order and the owner has moved onto new toys.

[Cooksferry]

Took the easy or simple way out and ordered another Audio Technica woodie, the fairly new
W1000x. Going by the various reports it's a step up from the W1000 and a step side ways from the W5000 which can be finicky beast at times. When its good its very, very good, when its bad.......

I see a couple of reports putting the W1000X more into L3000 territory which will mean much better mid and low bass response but without the slight roll off up top that I thought the
L3000s exhibited.
Time will tell.

[Quest]

Interesting review. I find the 007 combo not to my liking either, and eventually settled down with a srm-600 and stax airbow sc-1 which i felt is less refined and less details, but suits my music better. soundstage still there but more dynamics. using the airbow sc-1 with the 007 amp sounds great but obviously higher cost.

the 007 combo definitely doesn't suit rock.. i think it may be underpowered and this is why people go for a BHSE amp to pair with it. else it just sound weak.

now there is a 009 but i haven't heard that yet.

[Cooksferry]

now there is a 009 but i haven't heard that yet.

Given its price and the need to pair with a good amp I doubt many of us will. In NZ dollar terms you'd be looking maybe $12000 to set up such a system.

[kaka]

Took the easy or simple way out and ordered another Audio Technica woodie, the fairly new
W1000x. Going by the various reports it's a step up from the W1000 and a step side ways from the W5000 which can be finicky beast at times. When its good its very, very good, when its bad.......

I see a couple of reports putting the W1000X more into L3000 territory which will mean much better mid and low bass response but without the slight roll off up top that I thought the
L3000s exhibited.
Time will tell.

I've rolled a different dice Cooks - trying the Beyer T1s

There is an interesting set of AKG 701s on Trademe at the moment, converted to balanced (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=400542395) by APureSound in the US, but I've read that the T1s are similar but better.

Reading up the the 701 recabling it seems that some of the gains are getting rid of the connection via the headband to the second side (701s feed both signals in through the same side), some through superior cable and some through going balanced. It does seem odd to design unequal signal lengths from the get go.

[Cooksferry]

I've rolled a different dice Cooks - trying the Beyer T1s

There is an interesting set of AKG 701s on Trademe at the moment, converted to balanced (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=400542395) by APureSound in the US, but I've read that the T1s are similar but better.

Reading up the the 701 recabling it seems that some of the gains are getting rid of the connection via the headband to the second side (701s feed both signals in through the same side), some through superior cable and some through going balanced. It does seem odd to design unequal signal lengths from the get go.

So are any of your current stable going to get the chop if the Beyer measures up?
I very briefly looked at them but having never sampled that brand I'd probably start with something a little more modest like the DT880. There are so many varied reviews of various phones online now that it all gets some what confusing. My problem is that so many people posting opinions on sites like Headfi seem to be using what I would consider sub par software/hardware(I phones) and files(Mp3s with Senn HD880s??) .

There are times when I wished that I'd kept my 701s just to add some contrast between my other phones.

[kaka]

So are any of your current stable going to get the chop if the Beyer measures up?

Possibly some of the Grados - time will tell

The PS1000s might respond to a tube swap. I've got a miniwatt and Tele smooth plate that could work with them, but perhaps Grado has dropped behind the front runners

[Cooksferry]

Possibly some of the Grados - time will tell

but perhaps Grado has dropped behind the front runners


Hope Ernie doesn't live anywhere near you.;) Blasphemy.

[Newbie]

I really really like the akg702. They can be bought for about $400. Best damn $400 Ive spent, but to some it would be $400 down the toilet!

Not so sure there's any appreciable difference contributed to unequal cable lengths. But that may just be my clothears and source...(and no its not my soundburger!).

[40Hz]

This thread thread really has evolved nicely; from 'what does it take to get the best out of stax' (decent, third-party amplification (aka something designed by Kevin Gilmore) from what I can tell), through what high-end phone to try next, to 'has Grado run out of puff'.

For me, the first two questions kind of blend into each other, but are also a long way off time wise given the $$$ involved in purchasing both some O2 MkIIs and an amp that won't run out of puff. (From what I have read, the only Stax amps close to good enough are the SRM-717 and the SRM-T2, with the latter as rare as rocking-horse @$#! and running about as hot as a blast furnace. By contrast, the Blue Hawaiis of this world go for serious coin, however good they look and well they perform).

So I've parked that idea for a bit, and am currently getting a lot of enjoyment out of the LCD-2s. Mine do have an aftermarket re-cable, albeit equal first motivator for that was ergonomics - the original is not at all light or flexible, and combined with a hefty set of phones it was a bit much. At any rate with the ZD SE, which is very tube-rollable, they really shine. I kind of feel they out-grado Grado, in that for my listening tastes there is a very good spread across the frequencies, but they are much more resolving and revealing than either the RS1s or HF2s. I haven't heard the PS1000s, but these (and my Grados, to be fair) are long-term phones for me... It will be very, very interesting to see what Grado release next (and when), though, as I think Kaka's comment about dropping behind may just have something in it.

Can't say the same for the K701s (which I'm about to sell), which I bought for 'variety' for the ears, but which I always feel are presenting the music to me from about 3 suburbs away, inside a derelict building - far too distant, and, dude, like, where's the bass? I simply cannot imagine paying anything approaching full retail for them. Picked up some W1000s, again for variety in presentation, and to have some closed phones, but aside from their similarly polite bass reproduction, I think they also suffer from the single cable / linking drivers via the headband. I did make an enquiry of Apuresound about recabling to dual entry, but they seem to have been in the wars a bit lately and I haven't had a response...

Anyway, will look forward to Kaka's thoughts on the T1 in due course, as they seem to be a solid option if not quite generating the discussion that the HD800s and LCD-2s have done.

[Cooksferry]

Picked up some W1000s, again for variety in presentation, and to have some closed phones, but aside from their similarly polite bass reproduction, I think they also suffer from the single cable / linking drivers via the headband.

The W1000X may have been a better option. Dual cable and from all reports a much better bass response. Hopefully mine will be here next week.

[40Hz]

The W1000X may have been a better option.

Quite possibly so. I picked mine up locally for $220 (used) though, as I didn't feel like risking much on 'alternative' phones. The W1000X seem to have met with a good response, too, so hopefully they get a warm welcome at your place.

[bazza hallward]

I used to own a Stax 4040 and SMR-006.
I loved them!! I only sold them because I just moved on from headphone listening. But they kept me company for several years. And I listened to everything on them. I agree they're probably not the best for some types of music - but I listened to Jeff Buckley on them a million times over and still haven't heard that album better.

Teamed with my Unison valve CD player, the sound was rich and warm with a huge amount of sound stage and air. It was very smooth and involving too... and it sounded big!

I miss them.

[Cooksferry]

I see the Stax set in my op has been listed on TM in the last week and only attracted a bid of $1100.

[kaka]

Stax 007 must be worth at least 2.5 times that

[Cooksferry]

Stax 007 must be worth at least 2.5 times that

I would think that would be fair, especially given the near new condition.

[Newbie]

I recall an offer of low $2's for this about a year ago.

[Newbie]

Possibly some of the Grados - time will tell

The PS1000s might respond to a tube swap. I've got a miniwatt and Tele smooth plate that could work with them, but perhaps Grado has dropped behind the front runners

I might be interested in the PS1000's if you're thinking of moving them on.

[Cooksferry]

I recall an offer of low $2's for this about a year ago.

I dont think it was this particular set but I could be wrong.

[Cooksferry]

Talked to the owner this morning. This pair hasn't been listed before.
He's looking for $2800 which I thought was a fair price.
If anyone is interested drop me a PM.

[Cooksferry]

The ATH-W1000X arrived at lunchtime today. Only time for the briefest of listens but feel very positive from what I've heard.
Fit and finish are up to the usual AT woodie standards, ie basicly ahead of everyone else.
I'll give them a week or so and a good try out with the Yamamoto before forming any fixed comments.

[kaka]

Talked to the owner this morning. This pair hasn't been listed before.
He's looking for $2800 which I thought was a fair price.
If anyone is interested drop me a PM.

Out of idle curiosity I checked out the top amp for driving Stax (Blue Hawaii SE (http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/bhse/index.htm)) - US $1.2k for a 25% deposit, and then you might upgrade the tubes. Mounts up ...

The Woo WES is about the same

[kaka]

Since you've been acquiring sealed phones Cooks, you might have been interested in the Denon 7000s on TradeMe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Headphones/auction-403935826.htm)

I don't know much about them - not reviewed a lot

[foveaux]

Hi Kaka

I've rolled a different dice Cooks - trying the Beyer T1s
anything re SQ you're able to report yet?
cheers, F

[kaka]

Hi Foveaux

The I/C has just changed to an all silver Kimber 1036, and I'm putting hours on that and the Beyer T1s, so things might continue to evolve a little. The cable has 45 hours or so, and the phones 55 or so.

At the moment my order of preference off the Eddie Current valve amp is AT 2000, Beyer T1, Audeze LCD2 (with ALO balanced cable).

The Grados are lit up a bit too much at the top end, which could be dealt to by a change to the driver tube and perhaps I/C, but the AT 2000s are magical with that tube+I/C combo. I'm still surprised to see them clamber to the top of the pile, that most certainly wasn't the case off the B22 solid state amp.

The Audeze improved a lot after a cable replacement (they go from quite lifeless at the top end, to reasonable, with gains across the rest of the spectrum too) but the other two are better still.

I will have the AT 2000 converted to balanced (Craig Ulthus of Eddie Current let me know that there are gains, they are one of his favourites) but I'm not sure if there is anyone locally who does that type of mod. I don't particularity want to send them offshore, seems easier to bring the cable to them.

[foveaux]

Thanks Kaka
Appreciate your obs/results/info.
From time to time, I get tempted on a potential headphone improvement in my system (at my deliberately enforced price point and head amp level).
Courtesy of Cooksferry, I have heard mostly all the phones that have graced his Mancave and for my system and ears, the AT2000s are my pick. It is good to know that with top line amps like your ZDT they are fine too. So was interested in your experience comparing these to the Beyer T1s - which get very high praise - and are on my list of suspects (and which have yet to get to Cooks Mancave!)
Will be interested in your results as your I/C and T1's bed in, to see if the batting order changes.
cheers, F